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  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Maggot View Post
    Yes, they are. I haven't seen many games in other cities, but here in St. Louis everyone stops, removes their hats, stands, and turns toward the flags - no one is continuing down to their seats while it is being sung. We show this same respect toward your national anthem when the visiting team is Canadian. BTW, our singer Charles Glen is Black.
    These days some people are self aggrandizing and want more attention to fuel their ego. "Protesting" during the anthem is a great way to get it.
    We've obviously seen our fair share of "protests" in St. Louis as we've watched many of our great neighborhoods get looted and burned in recent years. Instead of having a chance to be concerned with the recent verdict that hit the news here, our attention has turned to what appears to be systemic violence and lack of respect for neighbors. All of this "protesting" has distracted from the true issues and has been a tremendous setback to the cause.
    We might have already had real change if half of the time spent protesting was instead put towards enacting actual solutions and helping people on the street-level.
    Well, we certainly do not disagree on that.

    I've never been to an NHL game in St. Louis (I've been to your city once, was there for a baseball game).

    My experience: Those who don't stop and stand for the anthem - It doesn't matter what anthem is being played. If I were in an American city watching a Canadian team visit: Those who stop would stop for both. Those who don't, don't stop for either. No Canadian team playing? I don't recall it making much of a difference. If I were in a Canadian city? It's about the same.

    It started in the NFL, and we're seeing it spill into other sports. I'm actually really interested in seeing the start of the NBA season for the first time in my life - because I'm quite curious to see what will happen. I suspect many of the league's biggest stars are going to protest in some way.

    I think what's lost in the whole conversation now: While it started out being a protest about social injustice, it's turned into something much different: The POTUS telling players they're not allowed to protest. I firmly believe that had Trump never gotten involved in the conversation, you'd see a handful of players doing this today, and it would be a relatively small story. The moment he did that, he had 100s of players start protesting a man who would curb their freedoms.

    To me, that's what this has become a story about. The USA, and that Flag, IMO: Have always stood for freedom. Freedom to protest. Freedom to be right or wrong. Freedom to criticize.

    Players should absolutely be free to take a knee during the anthem if that's what they want to do. You & I should be free to support that stance, and we should be free to think they're being a bunch of disrespectful ingrates. We should be free to keep watching those games, and we should be free to turn them off in disgust.

    I can respect anyone whose stance is support of the protests, and I can respect anyone whose stance is against the protests. I can't respect the notion that they should not be allowed to protest.



    As far as players doing things that promote actual meaningful change. I have no idea what they do or don't do. I've always been under the impression that pro athletes are often very generous with their time, and charitable with their money. Children's causes in particular get a lot of support from athletes. Sure there are some jerks, but I would be willing to bet the majority of them do actually do something - even if it's small - to try and help make the world a better place. If someone makes 80 million over the course of their career, ad they donate 2 million of that to charity: I realize it's easy to say they could have given more - but when is it enough? I don't know.

    One thing I am sure of: If Colin Kapernick had decided to hold a series of rallies, where they would discuss the injustice he sees in America (rather than kneeling) after the first rally he would have been told to shut up, reminded that he's a football player, and he doesn't know anything about how the real world works. The 2nd (or latter) rally? I suspect nobody would even pay attention.

    That's the other thing that should not be forgotten here. These protests during the anthem have forced a conversation to happen. It's an uncomfortable one. Taking a knee isn't going to fix any problems (and I don't think anyone ever believed it would) but if it makes a whole bunch of people talk about those problems - maybe they can talk about a way to fix them.
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  2. #12
    Certainly none of us here are going to solve the complex problem of when it's appropriate for historically-oppressed minorities to use their platform to raise a protest against social and other injustices. We would have to give SCF the Nobel Peace Prize otherwise.

    One can still have reverence for one's country and its ideals while also imploring the powers that be to redress its very pronounced, entrenched, and glaring shortcomings.

    I really wish some people could (or would) understand the nuance of protesting during the anthem and protesting the anthem. The two are not the same thing. It's not about the flag. It's never been about the flag. It's not about the anthem. It's never been about the anthem. It's easy to go full patriot and ignore the subtleties or even what people are actually saying.

    I will note that a lot of us commenting in this thread are Canadian. Understandable, given that it's the hockey section. We tend to not get super-duper-rah-rah about our flag. There's not a lot of people rocking Maple Leaf jock straps as they celebrate their team's Wild Card game victory getting doused with champagne. But that's fine. We generally respect our flag during the anthem at sporting and other events where the anthem is performed. We don't have the same levels of racial strife that the US does, though we have our own historical shame with the way our indigenous people have been treated. But our proximity to the US and the omnipresence of American media and culture, and its influence on Canada, really can't be ignored just by turning off the TV. I've had a lot of thoughtful conversations with people while watching football on Sundays. There's a lot of "but what about..." stuff--look, there's a lot of problems in the world, this is the issue that the athletic community is focused on right now. Cancer kills a lot more people than ALS, but that didn't stop us all from pouring ice buckets on our heads a couple years ago and raising a ton of awareness and money for research into that field.

    If people honestly don't think that sport and politics are tremendously intertwined, take a look at what Gary Bettman has been doing in Calgary during their municipal election cycle, uttering vague threats about moving the team if Mayor Nenshi and city council don't pony up the dough for a new arena. It's nothing new. It's not just that the current occupant of the White House has incited and divided people so bigly that almost everything is political in the US. It's always been this way with sports, and pretending otherwise is just that...pretending.

    This is obviously a major hot-button issue. I'll ask that people keep it calm & cool if commenting here. SCF discontinued the Political Talk Forum because people online sometimes lose their calm & cool and go off the rails. We don't want to be turfing out card traders because of this.
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  3. #13
    Some great points in your post! I agree with most. I don't necessarily agree with this one, though:
    Quote Originally Posted by 30ranfordfan View Post
    That's the other thing that should not be forgotten here. These protests during the anthem have forced a conversation to happen. It's an uncomfortable one. Taking a knee isn't going to fix any problems (and I don't think anyone ever believed it would) but if it makes a whole bunch of people talk about those problems - maybe they can talk about a way to fix them.
    Anthem protests don't create conversations about so-called racial inequality, let alone the probable root cause (deep-seeded economic and social issues). Anthem protests create conversation about the morality of using the anthem at sporting events as a soap box. They are a side-show that serve as a distraction from the real conversation. If anything, they are actually further entrenching people's stereotypes and creating more separation.
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  4. #14
    To echo what Richard said, keep the conversations civil and refrain from personal attacks.

    We donít have to agree with what others think or believe but we do have to respect each other.


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  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Maggot View Post
    Anthem protests don't create conversations about so-called racial inequality, let alone the probable root cause (deep-seeded economic and social issues). Anthem protests create conversation about the morality of using the anthem at sporting events as a soap box. They are a side-show that serve as a distraction from the real conversation. If anything, they are actually further entrenching people's stereotypes and creating more separation.
    Bingo Well stated

    While Police have their own issues and theres always a few who don't do their jobs correctly. 99% of them risk their lives for us every day. The shootings are what prompted Kaepernick to kneel. The problem is that he (and every other protester destroying and looting cities) is kneeling for criminals, people who didn't respect authority and risked their lives, the officers lives and the people around them. You can through all these police shootings and while its easy to criticize put your foot in the officers shoes for a second. I also have no respect for Kaepernick who didn't vote and wore a Fidel Castro shirt.

    While we all can be sympathetic to the issue (whether you agree or disagree), they really should be finding a better way to protest.
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  6. #16
    Everyone who opposes this says they should not protest in this way...they need to find a different way to protest. I ask how? What would be an acceptable way for you to have them protest to further the cause? This is the point of a protest. It just doesn't work if it done in a manner that is super polite and acceptable to all. It just doesn't work if it is out of the way and doesn't bother anyone. I feel this is the perfect way for them to do it. It is on a big stage, it is noticed and talked about. Best of all, it is a non violent way to protest a serious issue. It is really not my intention to be a smart alec (well, not entirely, anyway) but I'd like to hear some suggestions on what type of protest would be "appropriate".

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