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10-17-2017, 10:07 AM #1
Best In Net
The debate has gone on for decades as to which goalie is the best of all-time.
The vintage goalies with little to no protection or the current goalies who have to stop 100 mph slap shots.
Here is your chance to voice your opinion. We have already conducted a series of private polls but now Sportscardforum members can be heard.
There are two categories; Best In Net - Professional and Best In Net - International.
Let's hear what SCF members have to say. You can post on this thread or send me a PM, up to you.
Brian Price
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10-17-2017, 10:23 AM #2
I am close to your age and I know who most will pick for the international and professional goalies but I have to go with Hasek for both over a career. He usually didn't have a a top lineup in front of him, but he stole more games than any other goaltender period, including a Gold Medal we would all like to forget. If the main criteria for professional rankings is championship performances then I would give the nod to Patrick Roy.
The want list at this link features what I need of Gretzky, Roy, Ottawa Senators, and Miscellaneous sets. I also have a CFL want list on my page and if you have nothing from it I will consider other traders of current Ottawa Senators,Guy Lafleur, + trade bait.
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10-17-2017, 10:39 AM #3
I’ll get this party started
Outside of one game in 1980, I think there is little debate (I could be wrong) that Vlad tretiak is the best in net as it relates to international play.
However, I do wonder if the Soviet team of the Cold War era would have been as good if they did not play together all the time.
I ask this because most countries don’t have a team like the soviets did where they played together, were organized and had a ton of chemistry. Most international teams are together at most 4-6 weeks? (Especially today)
So with that said, outside of tretiak when I think about international play, I look at Jim Craig in 1980 (for that one night in February) or Hasek in 1998 (sorry ) as some of the best international performances. I know this is probably not at the heart of the question, but for me, the international play I think tougher once you get past Tretiak (one could make the argument that tretiak was one of the best professionals)
As for the professional I think you have your usually names, Roy, brodeur, hasek, etc.
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10-17-2017, 10:40 AM #4
Thanks for your post. I am going to put Hasek in the Best In Net - Professional, the Best In Net - International is for goalies who only played in International competition.
Brian Price
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10-17-2017, 01:29 PM #5
If I were to pick a "top 10" for professionals, and be representative of different eras.... in no particular order it would look like this:
Sawchuk, Plante, Vezina, Hall, Dryden, Esposito, Roy, Brodeur, Hasek, and Belfour.
Honorable mentions go to Carey Price, Grant Fuhr, and Billy Smith.
International. I'll do a top 10 again.
Tretiak has to be on the list (The USSR, many times). So does Jim Craig (1980), Mike Richter (World Cup 1996), Hasek (1998 Olympics), and Henrik Lundqvist (2006 Olympics).
My other 5 are all going to be Canadians:
Ken Dryden (winner of Game 8 in the 1972 Summit Series)
Rogie Vachon (based on the 1976 Canada Cup)
Martin Brodeur (2002 Olympics Gold, 2004 World Cup Gold, 2005 World Championship Silver)
Bill Ranford (1991 Canada Cup, 1994 World Championship Gold - First in 33 years for Canada, and first since it was a "Team Canada" rather than a senior team)
Carey Price (Gold in WJC, Olympics, World Cup)
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10-17-2017, 04:56 PM #6
No love for Ryan Miller's 2010 olympic performance? He was 5-0-1 with a .946 SP and 1.45 GAA and was MVP of the tournament.
I'm also not sold on Price being on the outside of the top 10 ever. I wonder how much country bias is in there for that one.
I would throw Bower in vs. Belfour. He won 4 cups and didn't play an NHL game until he was 34.
I also would put Benedict in there as an option.
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10-17-2017, 04:59 PM #7
As a Sabre fan, there is always a soft spot for Miller and should be in the discussion, even though he did not win a good medal in 2010.
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10-18-2017, 01:31 AM #8
I would have to say Martin Brodeur - Pro
and Tretiak - International.
So hard to choose though, as the debate has many variables and personal opinions. Man, that's a tough one!Jhonas Enroth Card Collector & Host of the Hidden Content
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10-18-2017, 12:26 PM #9
I think that is what makes this fun.
If any of you are following the Crosby debate thread, @30ranfordfan made a great point about age and watching the players play the game. I'll let him chime in.
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10-18-2017, 01:08 PM #10
Yup. I posted my list a little higher in this thread (named my top-10 pros, and top-10 internationals) but I will echo what I said in that other thread. Everyone is going to be a little biased towards the great players they saw play, and they're voting based on reputation for players that preceded that.
Vezina shows up on a lot of "all time" lists for goalies. Mine included. How many of us actually watched him play? lol. Honestly, I don't think I've ever even seen highlights of him play. He's on my list because of reputation, and where others have ranked him over the years. The same is going to be true of guys like Clint Bennidict, Tiny Thompson, Chuck Rayner, Bill Durnan, or Frank Brimsek.
I think "Greatest of all time" is a much better adjective to use than "Best of all time" as well. If I were making a card set "Best" works better for a catchier sounding name IMO, but the actual debate should be around Great, not total skill.
Why? Well, I'd imagine that if I could use a hot-tub time-machine and drop Alex Ovheckin, with his equipment, into 1924... and I gave him 10 pucks, and 10 breakaways vs Georges Vezina.... my bet is he's score 9 times out of 10. If I had to pick a "second most likely outcome" it would be 10 out of 10.
Converse that, and drop Newsy Lalonde (with his gear from 1920) onto the ice today, and ask him to take 10 breakaways vs Carey Price. I'd be shocked if he scored more than twice, and he probably doesn't hit those numbers.
The game, and how good players are, changes a lot from one era to the next. When you're comparing players across multiple eras: "Who is the best?" is a really difficult, and arbitrary thing to say.
I do believe you can compare greatness though. How dominant someone was during their era of play, that dominance is relative to their peers, and you can compare that across decades.
I'm 38. You can see my top-10 lists above... .but really most of my top-10 pros (6 of the 10, and 1 of the 3 honorable mentions) I'm going on reputation, and what others have said. That's it. I really have no concept of how good Jaques Plante was.... I just know what I've read. My international is slightly better: I can remember 6 of the 10 playing.
After I made my post, I see that Dr. Price has mentioned that he's looking for guy that ONLY played internationally. That list? I don't even know who to suggest outside of Tretiak. Jim Craig had an NHL career that nobody would even talk about, had he not won the Olympic Gold in 1980. If that means he's out as an international because he played professionally - I really can't offer much of an option up at all.
I mean, I've heard of Vladimír Dzurilla, and I know he got a shutout vs Canada in the 1976 Canada Cup. I have no clue how good he was outside of that. There's a few others I know of - but are the best or greatest? No idea.
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