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  1. #1

    What happens first: Montreal fires Montreal fires Bergevin or Carey Price pulls the "Patrick Roy"?

    Hi folks,

    After watching the Montreal Canadiens play the Anaheim Ducks tonight, I have to ask the question: Will history repeat itself?

    Hockey fans know about the "Patrick Roy Incident" against the Detroit Red Wings on December 2, 1995. If you don't, here's a short video:


    Montreal had an excellent second period tonight but nothing to show for it. Carey Price was visibly upset during this game. It makes me wonder if he regrets signing that extension with the Canadiens. The team is terrible and, barring an epiphany from Marc Bergevin on how to build a hockey team, I don't see it getting better anytime soon.

    Let's face it: Bergevin's transactions and drafting history is horrible. Less than five of the players drafted by him and his scouting staff have made the NHL and did anything to make an impact. He traded arguably the most popular player on the team in P.K. Subban and the team still didn't win. Pacioretty is slumping, Plekanec is past his prime, and Montoya can only do so much as a backup. Andrew Shaw is an agitator, Karl Alzner is not fleet of foot. He acquired Jonathan Drouin at the expense of their top defensive prospect. There are no reinforcements in the pipeline. What will the Canadiens do??

    Guys and girls, I wanna know, what comes first: Bergevin gets fired or Carey Price gets fed up with the lack of support and says "get me outta here"?
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  3. #2
    This should be fun to read


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  4. #3
    GM gets fired, but what should also happen (after GM is fired) is they should trade Price.

    This teams needs a complete rebuild. When I look at their roster, its not shocking that they are at the bottom of the league. Other than a maybe one line up top, and one D man, they need an overhaul. The thing is with Price in goal, he gives you so many chances that your team cannot finish at the bottom of the standings to get those high draft picks you need to build a true contender.

    Trade Price, you'll get a King's ransom. And then you can start the re-build process. But this GM should not be the one to do either. He needs to be let go, and someone who can draft and trade better than this guy has should be the one to run this team.

  5. #4
    Price should be upset, but at himself as much as anyone else. The team has played terribly, himself included. So I don't see him pulling a Patrick Roy. Bergevin will go. They should take a long look at their scouting staff as well. They have not drafted well for a very, very long time. They have a long list of first round busts, and it is not acceptable.

  6. #5
    Bergevin will do a desperate and stupid trade before the end of the month to try and salvage his career and both will be gone before the next trade deadline as part of a massive rebuild. How is Plekanec still a part of this team. His best before date was several seasons ago.
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  7. #6
    You can have gorges back.


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  8. #7
    Troubling days for sure and I’m not even sure the correct way forward. I don’t see Price being traded but I don’t see a rebuild happening with the massive contracts to Price and Weber.

    Drafting has has been an issue, although the Habs have some good players picked from later rounds; the biggest issue is the impact players selected in the 1st round. There are none and that’s a major issue. Part of that can be traced back to the Habs continuously picking in the early to mid 20s due to them finishing around the same spot every year. And when they do get a high pick (Galchenyuk), player development has been terrible.

    It boggles the mind that the Habs have been unable to add scoring and a top center. I liked the Drouin trade, but it’s not enough and maybe too late. And if that’s the case, the Sergachev loss may be bad news (although Mete and Juulsen have looked good).

    I see a trade or 2 happening to try and righten the ship. If that fails, Bergevin may have to go. The AHL structure needs to go and the coaching staff needs an overhaul (except Julien/Muller/Waite). Julien is not the problem in my eyes, this is on the players and the team that was built.

    /rant


  9. #8
    All I can add is that while the draft is a crap shoot and drafting high doesn’t always yield to a good team. See the oilers of the early 2010s and now my Sabres of the last few years.

    Outside of eichel, reinhart has not been very consistent, girgensons is a 3rd liner, ristolainen, while good is probably over used, grigorenko was a bust, zadorov was traded for ROR, Alex Nylander is in the AHL (which is probably the right move) and middlestat (2017 1st rounder) is at least 2 years away.

    There have been 5 coaches (ruff, rolston, Nolan, byslma and now housley) 3 GMs in the last 5-6 years.

    So if a hab fan or 2 are thinking about blowing it up and rebuilding. It doesn’t always work. But if you do, you cannot keep Bergeron to start the rebuild. Regier was there for the 1st 2 drafts of the Sabres rebuild and it probably should have been led by someone else


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  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by piper1 View Post
    Bergevin will do a desperate and stupid trade before the end of the month to try and salvage his career and both will be gone before the next trade deadline as part of a massive rebuild. How is Plekanec still a part of this team. His best before date was several seasons ago.
    My fear too. That's why as soon as he hired julien I wanted him fired. Julien is a horrible coach.


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  11. #10
    That this thread was started by a Leafs fan is just so very, very rich. Your team tanked for years and is just now good, so it's time to rag on other teams. Tremendous.

    But that said, there are some problems facing this team.

    Whoever it was that said scouting and drafting is one of them...think again. Galchenyuk, Price, Pacioretty, Lehkonen, Plekanec, Mete, and Gallagher are all homegrown talent in this lineup. Last year's first round pick was good enough to merit Drouin (a former #3 overall pick) in a 1-for-1 deal. A former high end 2nd rounder was good enough to merit Shea Weber in a 1-for-1 deal. The jury is still out on McCarron and Scherbak, while it appears promising for Juulsen and Poehling. Timmons is not the problem--when you're consistently picking in the 20's the science and the math and much more difficult. Less than 25% of the 18-year olds picked in that 16-30 range make it. You can compare the draft record of Timmons favourably against most teams.

    Development has been the crucial issue. Lefebvre is a terrible coach. Some guys (Leblanc) got injured early and never recovered. Other top guys have not come along as well as they should have. McCarron is still way too soft for a man his size. He should be winning way more puck battles and asserting himself physically. But he's not. Fucale should have been good enough to be Carey's backup by now; instead he's maybe third in line thanks to well-drafted and -scouted guys like Lindgren and McNiven.

    Ok...Bergevin. He inherited a mess of a team when he came on in 2012. Turned it around right away. The team was a lot of fun in the lockout season, went to the ECF in 13-14, and has had two 100-point seasons in 14-15 and 16-17. The 15-16 season was a disaster after the Price injury and the locker room dissension that led to the Weber/Subban deal. That's a pretty solid record that many teams would find envious--playoffs in five of six years. 2014 will remain the big "what could have been" due to Kreider wiping out Price and will remain so unless and until this team goes further.

    He has made some impact trades and signings that have improved the team. Byron was an absolute gift from the Flames. Vanek was hot down the stretch but fizzled in the 2014 playoffs. Drouin will be a star, and so will Sergachev. Weber has been great and is now in a mentorship role for Mete. Radulov was a great move and it's not on Bergevin that he parlayed his one year in Montreal into a deal the Stars will come to regret. Markov...I think letting Markov go wasn't bad but the replacement by committee has not gone well. And picking up Ott, Martinsen, and King last year thinking they would help the team score goals and win a Cup was dreadful. Some have said that was a fireable offence.

    So the personnel record on the ice? Pretty good. Some huge deals. Some ok ones. A couple dumb ones. Hardly unique. He kept his foxhole buddy Therrien too long, but there was nobody of quality to replace him until Julien came available. That was the right move. He's a great coach--a proven winner on many levels. Why is JJ Daigneault still running the defence? Inexplicable. They've had multiple opportunities to bring in Larry Robinson and choose not to do it. Kirk Muller has not cured the power play.

    It really is a mixed record overall for this GM. Some good picks, some washouts. Some good trades, some head scratchers. He's done better than many other current GM's over the same period of time. But in Montreal the only successful season is one where The Cup is raised. Good seasons and second round appearances don't quell the desire for a parade.

    Look, this team wasn't really as good as its 9-0 and 9-0-1 starts in recent years suggested. And they're not as bad as their 1-6-1 current record suggests. Carey Price will not be an .886SV% for long. The team will not shoot at historically pathetic 2.7% for the season. Max Pacioretty will score goals again. The power play will revert to a standard 12-15%. The bottom pairing d-men have to and will be better--once they get Davidson in for Morrow, Schlemko returns, and Jordie figures out his game. This sucktitude cannot persist.

    But there's no deus ex machina out there. It's gonna take hard work and better play from the best players. Can't win with .886 goaltending and pop-gun shooting. Those things are impossible to overcome in tandem. Price needs to be a .920 or better if they want to win 2-1 and 3-2 hockey games because they don't have the horses to score five and six goals a game. Even if he's a .915 they can scratch and claw if Max goes on a tear and the PP gets it in gear. But an .886? Steve Mason looks at that number and is like, Dude that's bad.

    Personal accountability comes into play here for the guys on the ice. It's not squeezing blood from a stone to expect this lineup to be able to produce 3 goals a game with a goalie that can limit the opposition to two or fewer.

    So to answer the fake dichotomy question in the OP: neither is immediate. Bergevin will ultimately go unless the team becomes a dynasty because that's the nature of the job unless you're David Poile.


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