The Official JAMEIS WINSTON Thread

[Jameis1of1]

Dan Marino had amazing stats for his era... but never won anything.

Indeed ... and he was a FIRST BALLOT HALL OF FAMER ... and that's where I honestly believe Jameis will end up as well ... I just hope he can win at least one ring BUT rings are TEAM ACCOMOPLISHENTS, not individual accomplishments ... they don't actually mean anything in regards to evaluating individual talent or assessing the greatness of an individual players career.

And he seemed to have a good head on his shoulders.

Jameis is widely considered by everyone around him to be the best natural leader they have ever seen ... Jason Licht who worked with Tom Brady said that as well. Jameis is also considered the hardest worker on the team, and it's not just platitudes ... the stories are endless, which is why he commands such respect from his coaches and teammates ... as for Marino, the guy slid in the draft due to drug use rumors and then even after he had retired, one of his offensive lineman (Kyle Turley) gave an interview and said Marino had smoked weed before NFL games as well. He also cheated on his wife of 30+- years and fathered a child with CBS employee Donna Savattere. There are also tons of stories that Marino was a "jerk" ... however, the last time I checked Lawrence Taylor was in the NFL HOF and Michael Jordan is in the NBA HOF and Ty Cobb is in the baseball HOF, so, personality doesn't have much to do with career success ... but if it does, I'm even more confident that Jameis will up in Canton as you can't find an ex-coach or teammate who will say a single bad thing about him ... his guys just adore him!

Stats are great, but in the long run, mean nothing.

You are 100% wrong. In the long run, it's stats, not TEAM wins that get one into Canton. Tarkenton, Fouts, Marino, Kelly and Moon ALL were inducted in short order into Canton and they COMBINED to win ZERO rings in 70+ years of NFL football ... however there are tons and tons of ex players that have won a ring on a great TEAM that will never get into Canton without buying a ticket, including QBs like Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Jeff Hostettler, etc.

Marino is overlooked in most QB conversations because he never won a damn thing.

I'm not sure what GOAT QB conversations you've listened to or been a part of but pretty much everyone out there regards Marino as the BEST pure passer that has ever lived and a guy who was "better" than Montana, but simply lacked the TEAM around him to achieve TEAM success. People don't put him at the top of GOAT lists because people factor team success into that argument ... it's the same reason a lot of people don't put Michael Jordan ahead of Bill Russell despite everyone knowing Jordan was the better player ... but Russell almost had twice as many rings, so to the old guard, Russell is the GOAT. As for Marino ... did you know that just ONE of his teammates ever made it into the Hall of Fame? One! And, that was his Center, Dwight Stephenson. Imagine if Tom Brady or Joe Montana had been drafted by the Browns and the ONLY HOF player they ever played with was Joe Thomas ... it's very probable that neither one would be in or going to the Hall of Fame and almost certain neither one would have won a single ring ... that's the sort of situation Marino spent his entire career in, and yet he is still considered "the greatest pure passing QB ever".

At this point in his career, Jameis is headed for the same thing.

Okay, in your last post you said Jameis wasn't a good QB and now, after reading my refutation and seeing all the stats, you are claiming that Jameis will be another Marino, put up insane career stats and get into the Hall of Fame but that he won't ever win a ring. Honestly bro, I think that would be awesome, and I'm thrilled you've done a complete 360 after seeing all the stats and realizing the truth.

I mean, of course I'd like to see Jameis win at least one ring, but I'd much rather see him in the Hall of Fame without a ring than be a ring-winner who has to buy a ticket to the Hall of Fame. Every single year 53 players win a ring ... there are literally thousands of ring-winners who are nobody's that no one really remembers ... Hall of Famers are sports Immortals!

However, again, I personally would be pretty surprised if Jameis does not win at least one SB ring ... he's one of the best natural leaders ever at the QB position and has elite talent, so if whatever organization he plays for can at least be "competent" I do think he'll win a ring at some point. In fact, I like Michael Pasatieri's "NFL Personality Analysis Method" which teams use to guage a QBs personality, compare it to past QBs and chart their future ... and his analysis of Jameis before the 2015 draft was as follows:

Jameis’ historical precedent analysis show an almost exact mental makeup match with with Bart Starr and Ken Stabler. Sharing a near exact correlation with 2 SB winning QBs is very rare. This bodes well for Jameis’ NFL career prospects."

And, he concluded his analsys of Jameis by saying the following,

"You heard it here first, congrats to Jameis Winston on at least one Super Bowl win."

Until he becomes a better decision maker, on and off the field, he will never be considered one of the greats. Not hating, just telling it like it is at this point.

And I simply disagree with you. He's been just about perfect "off the field" since entering the league and is considered the leader of the Bucs team, a leader in the community, a guy who is ALWAYS the "first in and last out" and one who spends his off-seasons training with Michael Jordan's old trainer rather than chilling and his season off-days doing charity work instead of partying. As for his on-field decision making ... he was drafted to be a team savior, not a game-manager and he actually needs to carry the Bucs entire offense as they have had no running game to speak of for 2 years and a bad O-Line ... he doesn't have the luxury to play dink-n-dunk, check-down all the time, throw out of play-action most of the time and the like as his defense is horrible ... and this year, despite all that, and while playing with an injured throwing shoulder for much of the year, put up career highs in basically everything and had a higher completion percentage AND passer rating than even MVP candidate Russell Wilson until the last game of the year when both he and Mike Evans admitted that Jameis forced balls the whole game to Mike to try and get him his 4th straight 1,000 yard season (he got it, by one yard!) ... and even coach Dirk Koetter was on board with that plan. It resulted in 3 picks for Jameis, but of course he still threw for 363 yards and threw the game-winning TD pass that knocked the division champ Saints out of the #3 seed and into the #4 seed ... that game was actually a perfect example of why Jameis' teammates love him to death ... he doesn't care at all about his own stats, he'll throw 50/50 balls knowing they could get picked to get Mike Evans his record ... Jameis could have played "safe" and finished the season with a higher passer rating than Wilson easily, but he doesn't care about stuff like that ... he is a true alpha leader and every coach and player he's played with or for just raves about his leadership and how they love the young man.

Anyways ... thanks for the comment as it allowed me to have fun typing out this reply.

Have a wonderful day and a happy New Year!!

[#1duckscollector]

Marcus still has a playoff win

[Jameis1of1]

Marcus still has a playoff win

And Jameis still has an NCAA title, with a title game MVP trophy ... and Jameis is still is #1 ALL-TIME in NFL history in both career passing yards and career TD's before the age of 24 ... I could go on and on ... why do you bother acting like a child on this thread? It only makes you look silly.

Anyone who knows me, knows I love Mariota and hope for the best for the young man ... I just don't believe in his future the way I believe in Jameis'.

People don't have to hate Mariota if they love Jameis and they don't have to hate Jameis if they love Mariota ... and nobody has to act like a troll ... I love both guys but I only believe in one as a future HOF QB and that's Jameis.

[Rabs]

Well at this point neither guy looks like a HOFer. Yes Mariota has a playoff win but I feel like more people will remember last night's game rather than the win over KC. Not all Mariota's fault last night though, his defense was terrible and he had no run game. Pats did what the Pats do best and dominated the game. Jameis has the better statistical numbers at this point overall. Now both guys will get healthy in the offseason and we'll see how they progress into next year and see what the two teams add in the draft and free agency.

[Jameis1of1]

Well at this point neither guy looks like a HOFer.

Re-watch the MNF Bucs v Falcons game ... Jameis "looks" like a HOF'er ... the kid passes the eye test. In fact, he has looked like a sure-fire HOF'er since he was 19 years old and at that age scouts were saying some aspects of his game were better than all but a few NFL QBs.

As for the numbers ... Jameis is also on pace to obliterate the career passing yards and passing TD marks of every single QB who has ever lived, so he's on a HOF career track there as well.

As for "team success" ... that's where he's lacking, though I will say that taking a 2-14 team to a 9-7 record in two years was awesome, but this past season, the injury really messed things up and his defense was the absolute worst in the entire NFL ... not even Tom Brady was taking THAT Bucs team in THAT division to the playoffs.

However ... there are many QBs in the HOF that never won a ring and others who had bad career records, even a career LOSING record, so, team success alone isn't the determining factor many times.

As for Marcus ... he was very efficient his first two years, is still very young, is on a good statistical pace if he can stay healthy and has a solid TEAM around him as well ... I like his future.

Yes Mariota has a playoff win but I feel like more people will remember last night's game rather than the win over KC.

Yeah, probably, but it doesn't matter much at all imho ... unless you win a ring, no one really remembers mere playoff performances. Some people think they "spike" card values, but they don't, at least not "long-term" ... there might be a quick spike after a win but it all but vanishes after the next loss ... collectors are too fickle.

I think a lot of collectors buy-in on the big-time rookies thinking they will triple their investment in 2-3 years at the most and that's just silly as such almost never happens. Even with Wentz's big rise this year, his cards didn't come close to tripling as they cost a ton right when they come out his rookie year as well. Guys made some great money on Dak but that was because he was a late-round pick most collectors didn't expect anything of and his early rookie cards could be bought pretty cheaply.

I think sports cards are a rough thing to "invest" in for most people as they don't have any patience and are just looking to "get rich quick" and as the good book says in 1 Timothy 6:6-10, that's not exactly the best goal to have.

I wish sports card collectors, and even just the sports talking heads in the media, could take a long-term view of players, but they seem unable to do so for the most part. Both Jameis and Mariota, as well as many other young QBs are at an age where Aaron Rodgers was sitting on the side-line and holding a clip-board, but the media expects them all to perform as if they were in their "prime" and seasoned vets ... it's dumb.

To me, watching a player's career play out, with both its highs and its lows is both instructional and extremely entertaining. I don't expect any young player to instantly "save" a franchise or become a HOF'er instantly ... I want to see them build a career resume that will get them enshrined in Canton after they retire, and many players have the talent necessary to do that, but for one reason or another never make it ... it's all quite fascinating and can be a blast if one isn't expecting to triple their investment in shot order.

In short, if I was one of the guys with some big-ticket Mariota's, I'd hold onto them rather than sell as he's on a very solid team and still has a very bright future, and as for Jameis, I am still 100% all-in on his future as a HOF'er and haven't seen anything that would even make me question that stance.

Not all Mariota's fault last night though, his defense was terrible and he had no run game.

Pats did what the Pats do best and dominated the game.

I agree 100% and would add that perhaps now Mariota knows what Jameis has been dealing with for the past 2 SEASONS ... to me, QBs get way too much credit for wins and losses, they only contribute about 5-10% to a team's success or failure, so it's just silly how people consider TEAM wins and losses a "QB stat" ... absurd. Marcus wasn't good last night but he wasn't "the reason" his team lost ... they couldn't stop the Patriots, couldn't block the Patriots and couldn't run on the Patriots, period.

Jameis has the better statistical numbers at this point overall. Now both guys will get healthy in the offseason and we'll see how they progress into next year and see what the two teams add in the draft and free agency.

I'm not expecting a whole lot of "team success" from either team next year, though I do think the Titans have a very good chance to get back to the playoffs, especially if Luck and Watson are rusty ... my biggest concern for them would be that the Jags get a real QB in the offseason and that Luck could return healthy with a newly drafted superstar RB in Saquon Barkley behind him. As for the Bucs, their team just has so many holes, it's hard to think they will be able to fill them all in just one off-season, and even if they do, they still play in the absolute best division in the entire NFL, so I'd be pretty surprised if they make the playoffs next year ... but if they don't I do think the team will fire the head coach and coordinators and make a run at a big-time coach like Jim Harbaugh or maybe even hand the team over to a supposed younger coordinator and defensive genius like the Texans Mike Vrabel ... so, while I'm not all that high on the Bucs' TEAM future, I do think their passing game is set for a decade barring injury and I'm still super-high on Jameis' career prospects from an individual perspective.

[Jameis1of1]

In other news ... I just looked at the Blowout thread about Mariota and Jameis ... how sad, nothing but trolling, name-calling and personal "opinions". They talked about THIS thread on the B.O. Bucs 2017 thread and I know for a fact some B.O. folks have come over just to read this thread, so, keep up the good work Rabs and others as people like REAL, QUALITY DEBATES with actual facts, stats, adult-conversation and the like, rather than just senseless trolling, name-calling and mere "opinions".

I honestly think this is one of the best threads on a sports card related site anywhere and I'm thrilled it's here on SCF with reasonable folks to "talk shop" with!

Have a great Sunday everyone!

[Rabs]

In other news ... I just looked at the Blowout thread about Mariota and Jameis ... how sad, nothing but trolling, name-calling and personal "opinions". They talked about THIS thread on the B.O. Bucs 2017 thread and I know for a fact some B.O. folks have come over just to read this thread, so, keep up the good work Rabs and others as people like REAL, QUALITY DEBATES with actual facts, stats, adult-conversation and the like, rather than just senseless trolling, name-calling and mere "opinions".

I honestly think this is one of the best threads on a sports card related site anywhere and I'm thrilled it's here on SCF with reasonable folks to "talk shop" with!

Have a great Sunday everyone!

Yeah that thread has gotten out of hand lately. People are just posting to spur arguments a lot of the time.

[Jameis1of1]

Yeah that thread has gotten out of hand lately. People are just posting to spur arguments a lot of the time.

B.O. is like that ... not a lot of serious analysis, just smack talk ... sort of like Twitter ... I actually love Twitter though, I do get crazy messages from people all the time but it's fun and I can just mute or block people I don't want to hear from :-)

[Jameis1of1]

I think ALL football fans wish the NFL Draft was tomorrow, but with OTA's in full swing, football news is back to being good news for many of us ... even fans of a team with by far the worst defense AND one of the worst rushing attacks in the entire NFL last season, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers!

The free agency period went well for the Bucs as they signed the best center available, who should hopefully help their pathetic rushing attack, signed two run stuffing DT's who should help their porous defense and both signed a solid DE and traded for someone who can actually sack a QB in Jason Pierre Paul, which should mean the Bucs may have a DE with more than 2.5 sacks like they did last year!

The best news I've heard so far is that JAMEIS WINSTON is leading his troops and whipping them into shape, which is a big deal as Mike Evans has always been known as a guy that gets gassed pretty easily and Desean Jackson barely worked out last off-season and skipped a bunch of training acting like a diva.

However, this year Jameis rented a huge house for he and his receiving corps to live in together and scripted full 8 hour practice sessions days for each of them ... THAT is awesome!

Here is a link to an article about this: http://www.joebucsfan.com/2018/04/vi...n/#more-196808

Jameis seems to always be either working out privately (trains with Michael Jordan's old trainer), working out with teammates on his own dime, or doing charity work ... his leadership is off the charts and I hope it rubs off on whatever rookies the Bucs draft in a couple of weeks.

OH, BTW, I recently joined the www.BucsBrigade.com as a beat writer and also have done some freelance work for www.AllThingsBuccaneers.com, along with my ongoing statistical contributions to www.JoeBucsFan.com so feel free to check out my articles any time.

[Rabs]

Way too early to get excited!!! Lol.