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  1. #341





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    Really hope he gets to 30/30 this season.
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    Brian Orakpo/Sean Taylor/Craig Kimbrel Super Collector - I collect Lucky 13 Football RCs (04-07 all versions). Also like current Redskins and Braves (Acuna/Albies/Camargo/Soroka/Toussaint/Riley/Folty, etc.), Mike Trout, Blake Snell, Roger Federer.

  2. #342





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    30-30 season! YES!

  3. #343





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    He did it! Congrats Jameis!

  4. #344




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    Lol

    #Noonecares

    Mr. Interception

    Mr. pick six record

    Mr. Will never be HOF because he can’t make it to the playoffs

    Mr. Can’t even get wildcard

    Mr. Always throwing because he’s playing from behind stats

    JAMEIS WINSTON is now:

    #1 ALL-TIME in NFL HISTORY in career passing yards for a 25 year old QB

    #2 ALL-TIME in NFL HISTORY in career passing TDs for a 25 year old QB


    In his last game, he also became the FIRST QB in NFL HISTORY to ever throw for 450+ passing yards and 4+ TDs in back to back games, one week after he became the ONLY QB in Super Bowl-era HISTORY to ever have 400+ passing yards, 4+ passing TDs and 1+ rushing TD in a "W".

    And Jameis is doing this with a broken thumb on his throwing hand and without his #1 and #2 wide receivers (both out with hamstring injuries) and no run game!

    LEGENDARY!

    GREAT VIDEO:
    https://twitter.com/jameis1of1/status/1207404067548479494

    Collect Oregon Ducks, Vikings, Rockets

  5. #345




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    I'm sure I've asked this before, but what are people's takes on the following as a measurement:

    1. Statistical accomplishments by a given age (25) or
    2. Statistical accomplishments after # of seasons played (5)

    1. It is true and factual that Winston ranks as the following by age 25:

    Games - 2nd (72)
    Starts - 2nd (70)

    Completions - 2nd (1,563)
    Attempts - 2nd (2,548)

    Completion % - 22nd (61.34%)
    Yards - 1st (19,737)
    TDs - 2nd (121)
    Ints - tied 1st (88)

    TD% (TDs/Atts) - tied 20th (4.7%)
    Int% (Ints/Atts) - tied 56th (3.45%)
    Rating (flawed stat imo) - tied 21st (86.9)

    Pro Football Reference

    2. After a QBs first 5 seasons here is where Winston ranks in those same categories:

    Games - tied 16th (72)
    Starts - tied 17th (70)
    Completions - 7th (1,563)
    Attempts - 8th (2,548)
    Completion % - 31st (61.34%)
    Yards - 2nd (19,737)
    TDs - 8th (121)
    Ints - tied 8th (88)
    TD% (TDs/Atts) - tied 31st (4.7%)
    Int% (Ints/Atts) - tied 60th (3.45%)
    Rating (flawed stat imo) - 29th (86.9)

    Pro Football Reference


    I've never be part of the Winston Player Hater's Club (tm) but I always thought the "before age x" was arbitrary since there are only 12 players in NFL history who played QB in the NFL as a 21 year old. Added to that, 4 of them were drafted after Winston and aren't even 25 yet, meaning that pool of 12 players shrinks down to 8 including Winston.

    That means Winston has an inherent advantage to all other QBs who started at age 22 or later. Here's the list of QBs who played QB at age 21:

    Pro Football Reference list

    list.JPG

    His age 21 year he threw 500+ attempts, 4,000+ yards, and 20+ TDs when all but 7 other QBs in the entirety of NFL history get 0 stats in that category and 4 others haven't caught up to age 25. I'm not going to sit here and say his career stats aren't amazing for his age but I'm also not ready to crown him as legendary because he left college after his sophomore year as a 20 year old then was installed as a starter right away in the NFL either.


    #Noonecares

    Mr. Interception

    Mr. pick six record

    Mr. Will never be HOF because he can’t make it to the playoffs

    Mr. Can’t even get wildcard

    Mr. Always throwing because he’s playing from behind stats

    1. He has a lot of interceptions because he has a lot of attempts. His Interception % is 3.45 on his career which is around 90th on the career list (with 1st being best). He's no Rodgers but he has a better rate than 20 other qualifying HoF QBs on the list.

    2. Amusing but a quirky stat. It's luck based on where on the field the interception was thrown and what kind of obstacles the defense had to get into the end zone.

    3. His career's worthiness for the HoF has not been written yet.

    4. It takes a team to get in the playoffs. Look Kurt Warner, never made the playoffs until he was 28. Warren Moon didn't make the playoffs until he was 31. Dan Marino famously squandered his only Super Bowl appearance and routinely missed the playoffs because of his terrible, terrible teams and talent and face and lack of "Montana #16" on the back of his jersey. These guys all made the Hall of Fame.

    5. Is that not partially a function of his team's defense not holding the opposition? Tampa Bay's defense has ranked 26, 15, 22, 31, and 29 the last 5 years in points allowed whereas the offense has ranked 20, 18, 18, 12, and 3rd in points scored. I grant that turning the ball over 30+ times is terrible no matter who you blame on offense but he wouldn't need to throw so much if the defense could keep the Bucs in games and let them run the ball some.

  6. #346




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    nice read to above thread. Pretty objective

    did warner and moon play in other leagues prior to nfl?

  7. #347




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    did warner and moon play in other leagues prior to nfl?

    I trust that was a rhetorical question to make a point which fair enough. Here's a couple other HoFers for consideration:

    Len Dawson - 27
    Kenny Stabler - 28
    Dan Fouts - 28
    Y.A. Tittle - 31
    Steve Young's - 31 (yes I know he was a backup on multiple Super Bowl winning teams and played in the USFL for a year)
    Fran Tarkenton - 33

  8. #348




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    It is all up the person to decide which they want to use. There is a very small sample size so I understand why he would use the by age 25 stat for example. I tend to use by years played and experience. Nothing wrong with either way. Warren Moon and Kurt Warner didn't start a game in the NFL until age 28 each. Each QB has a different story.

    The NFL QB has become so much more efficient than years ago. If Winston was playing in the 90's era, he would be a top 10 QB. Times have changed. The league has made it pass friendly with rule changes.

    For example look at QB Rating in 1994 compared to 2019

    1994 had 1 QB at or over 100 QB Rating. The 10th place ranking in 1994 was Craig Erickson at 82.5

    2019 had 9 QB at or over 100 QB Rating. The 10th place ranking in 2019 was Dak Prescott at 99.7


    More times than not Winston is either fantastic or horrible. The average QB rating is in the high 80's. He had 8 games at 100+ rating this year, one around the average, 7 at 75 rating or below. Three of them were in the 45-47 range.

    2018 Tampa Bay Passing Game Winston/Fitzpatrick together (includes passing and rushing tds, turnovers include int and fumbles lost)

    Total TD's 39 Total Turnovers 30 Total Passing Yards 5358 (Fitz TD/TO 19-13, Winston TD/TO 20-17)

    2019 Tampa Bay Passing Game Winston

    Total TD's 34 Total Turnovers 35 Total Passing Yards 5109

  9. #349




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    5. Is that not partially a function of his team's defense not holding the opposition? Tampa Bay's defense has ranked 26, 15, 22, 31, and 29 the last 5 years in points allowed whereas the offense has ranked 20, 18, 18, 12, and 3rd in points scored. I grant that turning the ball over 30+ times is terrible no matter who you blame on offense but he wouldn't need to throw so much if the defense could keep the Bucs in games and let them run the ball some.



    Well over 100 points the defense gave up were off of Winston turnovers. I am not even saying the Tampa D wasn't bad early, but they were just as consistent on a weekly basis as the offense. Most people don't realize that all of those pick 6's go directly on the defensive points allowed. Same instance the defensive touchdowns scored by the Bucs count towards the offensive points scored a game. Most know Winston gave up a record seven pick 6's this year, the Bucs D also tied for first with the Ravens in defensive touchdowns with 6.

  10. #350
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