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  1. #311




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    I have a hard time putting Winston in a conversation with Favre. The big difference for me is growth if you want to compare them. I am not talking about Winston at 25 and in his 5th year. I am talking about Winston being in his 5th year and he hasn't proven he should get a long contract extension.

    I totally agree that Tampa has had a shaky run game and defense while Winston has been in Tampa. That being said you can also say Winston isn't setting the D up for success with all the turnovers. Winston has a decent supporting cast with him on offense and he has looked better(minus the turnovers). The offense has actually put up some decent numbers so far.

    Favre had some good defensive teams early in his career and at different times in his career. Favre had a real weak run game to work with his first 4 years in GB and also got sacked a lot. I know that sounds familiar to you if comparing to Winston since he has had the same thing. Favre had a league avg first year, moved the ball a lot his 2nd year with a of turnovers, than had some monster years after.

    It really isn't that I am picking on JW. You keep mentioning elite talent. I think he has another level he can take it too. That being said I am just still waiting on that. JMO but if he doesn't have more success it is mental. I think he hangs onto the ball way to long, takes way too may sacks when he can throw it away, and not sold on him reading the defenses. I am waiting to see if Arians can help him over the cliff or not.

  2. #312





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    I have a hard time putting Winston in a conversation with Favre.

    My guess is that is because you got to see Favre's entire career play out and him enter the Hall of Fame when all was said and done ... most people never see a young player going through struggles and equate him to a Hall of Famer, many times because they have a revisionist historical viewpoint when it comes to the Hall of Famer. I'm not saying that is you, but it is many people.

    The big difference for me is growth if you want to compare them. I am not talking about Winston at 25 and in his 5th year. I am talking about Winston being in his 5th year and he hasn't proven he should get a long contract extension.

    Goff just got $134m and he's nowhere near the talent Winston is, nor has he done anything other than fall flat on his face when he had a defense and run game even close to as bad as what Winston has had for nearly his entire career. As for Favre ... he was in and out of rehab, a wild-man off the field and a turnover machine on the field ... but he had a GREAT defense to help him to "wins" along the way. Again, I maintain that had Favre had Winston's defense and run game, he would have been shredded by the media and fans on the regular, as if Favre threw TWENTY-FOUR PICKS and fumbled another FOURTEEN times in one single season with a great defense, imagine what he would have done if he had Winston's historically porous defenses.

    I totally agree that Tampa has had a shaky run game and defense while Winston has been in Tampa.

    No, not "shaky", absolutely abysmal, as in the defense and especially pass defense being "historically" bad and the running game beyond pure garbage for three straight seasons.

    That being said you can also say Winston isn't setting the D up for success with all the turnovers. Winston has a decent supporting cast with him on offense and he has looked better(minus the turnovers). The offense has actually put up some decent numbers so far.

    They always put up numbers and this year are leading the NFC in points, but it doesn't matter as they can't stop anyone anyways. As for the TO's ... JW throws INTs in bunches, not every game as a true "turnover machine" would do ... in nearly 50% of his career games he has thrown ZERO picks, but when his team is overmatched or being scored on like crazy, he tries to be Superman and sling his team back into it and throws picks as expected in such situations. If he turned into a game-manager, his team would just lose games by 20+ points instead of 10+ points, as they wouldn't score close to enough to win.

    By the way ... I tweeted out the other day how Winston's win percentage even in games he throws no picks is insanely low when compared to almost any other QB ... why ... because even if he plays super "efficient", his "team" is still likely to get trounced as they can't stop anyone from scoring on them.


    Favre had some good defensive teams early in his career and at different times in his career. Favre had a real weak run game to work with his first 4 years in GB and also got sacked a lot. I know that sounds familiar to you if comparing to Winston since he has had the same thing. Favre had a league avg first year, moved the ball a lot his 2nd year with a of turnovers, than had some monster years after.


    I agree ... and if JW had Favre's defense I have no doubt he'd put up way better numbers, as would any QB with a bad defense, which is my point.


    It really isn't that I am picking on JW. You keep mentioning elite talent. I think he has another level he can take it too.

    Talent is talent, a player can't increase it ... it's God-given. I agree that JW can play better, but I would say the same about any 25 year old QB, as that should happen organically as they get more and more experience, but "talent" is just something one is born with.

    That being said I am just still waiting on that. JMO but if he doesn't have more success it is mental. I think he hangs onto the ball way to long, takes way too may sacks when he can throw it away, and not sold on him reading the defenses. I am waiting to see if Arians can help him over the cliff or not.

    Every coach he's ever had has sad he reads defenses magnificently and has an insane recall, etc ... but you are SPOT-ON when it comes to holding the ball to long and taking too many sacks, which goes to the Favre-esque "Superman gene" and trusting your arm and athleticism way too much. I'd love to see JW just crumple to the ground the way Peyton and Eli Manning did BEFORE getting sacked, or just throw the ball out of bounds constantly the way Aaron Rodgers does, to avoid sacks, and hopefully that will come in time ... but Favre never learned to do that nor did Big Ben (who Arians compares JW to), so we'll see what happens ... his refusal to give up on plays makes for some insane highlights, but it also leads to some insane turnovers as well of course.

  3. #313





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    If you want to understand the difference between the media's false narratives about Jameis Winston's turnovers and what his head coach Bruce Arians thinks ... just click on the below tweet and watch the video of Arians' press conference where he shuts the media down and makes it clear that while the stat-sheet may show Winston threw 2 INT's, in his mind Winston didn't throw a single INT as both were absolutely the fault of his receivers running the wrong routes ... I love Bruce Arians as he doesn't care what anyone thinks about him and just speaks the truth and let's the chips fall where they may.

    https://twitter.com/jameis1of1/status/1188569972215341056
    Last edited by Jameis1of1; 10-27-2019 at 07:51 PM.

  4. #314
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    in his mind Winston didn't throw a single INT as both were absolutely the fault of his receivers running the wrong routes ... I love Bruce Arians as he doesn't care what anyone thinks about him and just speaks the truth and let's the chips fall where they may.


    For those who prefer to read over videos:

    https://www.bucsnation.com/2019/10/2...ton-buccaneers

    I didn't watch the game so I don't know how things were looking. But Arians was saying week 1 a couple picks weren't Winston's fault either. He's gotta get on Kevin Garver, the WRs coach, or Byron Leftwich, OC, to get those receivers running right.

    I read in the box score Winston fumbled 3 times, losing 2. Was that poor protection or poor ball control on those?

  5. #315





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    For those who prefer to read over videos:

    https://www.bucsnation.com/2019/10/2...ton-buccaneers

    I didn't watch the game so I don't know how things were looking. But Arians was saying week 1 a couple picks weren't Winston's fault either. He's gotta get on Kevin Garver, the WRs coach, or Byron Leftwich, OC, to get those receivers running right.

    I read in the box score Winston fumbled 3 times, losing 2. Was that poor protection or poor ball control on those?

    No none of the fumbles were on Winston either. The lost one in London was 100% on him as he was trying to be Superman, but the ones in yesterday's game were all on the line and would have happened to any QB.

    However, in typical Jameis fashion, after the game he blamed himself for everything. And in typical media fashion ... hit pieces were written about him today. It's just life for Jameis ...

  6. #316





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    People would be surprised at how many Bucs fans are bigger Jameis fans than Bucs fans and contact me on Twitter saying they hope Jameis gets traded or bolts in free agency for his own sake ... they recognize the Tampa organization is just a disaster and want to see him with a quality organization that can field at least an average run game or defense once every 3-4 years ... crazy.

  7. #317





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    Jameis should replace Brady in New England.
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  8. #318





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    Jameis should replace Brady in New England.

    Jameis would think he died and went to heaven if he was starting for the Patriots next year! The Pats are giving up just 7.6 points a game this year! Jameis watches his Bucs' defense give up that amount almost every quarter, hahahaha.

    Part of me can't imagine Brady playing elsewhere next year or the Patriots "moving on" from him, but it could happen as I do think both Brady and Belichick desperately want to win a ring without each other, just so they can say "it was me" who made New England a dynasty ... and my money is certainly on Belichick being the one to win one without Brady ... and I have no doubt he could win one with Jameis who is infinitely more talented than Brady.

    I also think if Brady moves on that Philip Rivers could sign with the Patriots and win a ring with them next year ... but if Rivers retires or stays in LA, and Brady bolts for Chicago or wherever, I do think the Patriots will either trade for a QB or sign one in free agency rather than just roll with Stidham or draft a guy, so if that is the case, if the Bucs are crazy enough not to lock up or franchise Jameis, I do think he would be #1 on Belichick's list far ahead of any other free agent (Bridgewater, Bortles, Mariota, etc).

    Personally, I believe the Bucs will, at the very least, franchise Jameis next year ... and he'll once again have to watch his defense give up around 30 every game, and run for his life behind a bad O-Line when he gets the ball ... ugh.

  9. #319




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    I have no problem with you defending Winston at all. I have no problem with his INT's this week.

    What are the total number of points given up by the Bucs this year and how many of those points were given up off of turnovers? I am not saying Winston, but the offense. A good number of those points have been off of turnovers. The Bucs D is top 10 in forced turnovers and the offense is tied for 2nd most turnovers given away. I don't mind if you want to blame the defense but the offense has set the defense up in horrible field position throughout the season as well.

    The Bucs are a mess in every position. One week it is the O-line, one week the defense, one week the receivers, one week Winston. There is no consistency at all with this team. This will continue until there are changes.


    Best case scenario I see Winston getting franchised after this year. He has not earned a long term deal

  10. #320





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    I have no problem with you defending Winston at all. I have no problem with his INT's this week.

    What are the total number of points given up by the Bucs this year and how many of those points were given up off of turnovers? I am not saying Winston, but the offense. A good number of those points have been off of turnovers. The Bucs D is top 10 in forced turnovers and the offense is tied for 2nd most turnovers given away. I don't mind if you want to blame the defense but the offense has set the defense up in horrible field position throughout the season as well.

    The Bucs are a mess in every position. One week it is the O-line, one week the defense, one week the receivers, one week Winston. There is no consistency at all with this team. This will continue until there are changes.


    Best case scenario I see Winston getting franchised after this year. He has not earned a long term deal

    I agree with most of what you say in your post actually. However, the pass defense is still historically terrible. The team completely revamped and fixed their run defense this year, so that's nice, but they still can't stop anyone's passing attack at all.

    I also agree that the roster is still terribly flawed which leads to their being issues each week. Special teams cost them the Giants game, WRs running the wrong routes cost them the 49'ers and Titans games, and the London game was a mess for everyone including Jameis. They smoked the Rams, beat the Panthers ... and got smoked by the Saints (no one really played bad and Jameis had a good stats game but it was easy to see the Saints as a team are just far better than the Bucs as a team).

    The one thing I would take exception to is saying Winston hasn't earned a long-term deal, as he definitely has. The only things one can point to to say he hasn't are turnovers (and if you listen to Arians, it's clear he thinks much like I do about Winston's turnovers, namely that most all of them are either "on" teammates or simply come from him needing to take risks in games they are over-matched which wouldn't happen if the Jameis could trust his run game and/or defense, but he hasn't been able to trust either in 4/5 seasons and has never been able to trust both in the same season) ... and "team wins", which everyone should realize have everything to do with "team" and not much to do with the "quarterback", especially seeing as every single year inferior QBs make the playoffs on good teams while far superior QBs miss the playoffs on bad teams.

    I do believe the Bucs would like to merely franchise Jameis, as that's the smart thing to do with ALL players. I think the Rams and Eagles would have liked to franchise Goff and Wentz and that the Cowboys would like to franchise Dak, the reason teams don't is simply because they don't want to tick off their QBs and have those QBs determined to walk away after the franchise season. So, yes, I do think the Bucs would like to franchise Jameis, and he's a loyal guy so he may not play hard-ball with them, but it also wouldn't surprise me if his agent and inner circle tell the team "if you franchise Jameis, he'll play under the tag but he will NEVER sign a long-term deal with you and will bolt in free agency the second you can't tag him anymore". If that happens, the Bucs will have a big choice to make.

    As for Jameis being worth a long-term extension. He's outplaying Goff this year and is FAR more talented than Goff, who just got a 4 year $134mil contract. Likewise, while the Bucs team is still bad and Jameis still gets credited with a lot of turnovers, once again he is having an ELITE season according to the "advanced metrics".

    Consider that, RIGHT NOW, while the Bucs "team" is just 2-5, Jameis Winston is:

    #1 in the entire NFL in CAY
    #1 in the entire NFL in AYTS
    #1 in the entire NFL in ADOT
    #2 in the entire NFL in Air/Cmp
    #4 in the entire NFL in IAY
    ... and has a better "bad throw %" than Patrick Mahomes.

    In fact, Jameis bests Mahomes in ALL of the above "advanced metrics"!


    Jameis will also STILL be just 25 years old when this regular season ends and he's already the all-time leader in passing yards and passing TDs for the Bucs and his coach and GM adore him ... I think it's 100% obvious he "deserves" a long-term deal, but I also think Tampa would like to franchise tag him (as it's always the smartest thing to do with every QB if you won't alienate him) AND it wouldn't surprise me if Jameis' agent and inner circle want to force his way to free agency so he can sign with a more competent franchise ... we'll see what happens.

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