Being a Titans fan can be rough, Pre Game Thread!!!

[lil5up3rman]

I have to disagree with you I think Mariota is a much better QB that Winston, Winston has better receivers on his team than mariota has, he also has a better offensive coordinator which we don't have. I also think we could have destroyed the jags again, they are over hyped imo. I also don't think Cousins is that good I certainly don't want him, I think must of the Titans failures and mariotas for that matter this year have been play calling, run, run, curl or slant route, how many times can you run the same plays before the defense catches on. Also his injury is more severe than just his hamstring, he has to have surgery yet again after the season to clean up scar tissue, I think there is a lot that is not being said about his injury, I think he will be fine if we get a better OC but that is just my opinion, I still have a lot of faith in him. I like Winston but I really worry about him some what because he has Evans, Brate, Jackson, Howard, Martin and they still can't make the playoffs, something is off there not sure what to attribute it to as I didn't watch him play much this year.

[lil5up3rman]

As for the Chiefs game that is going to be a tough one, not sure if we can pull that off I would have rather played the Jags again as last time we made the wild card and played the Jags, we won all 3 of those games to and I believe we can do it again, I just think we have their number this year.

[bakemeister52]

Love to see the Titans win, but the coach needs to go.

[Jameis1of1]

I have to disagree with you I think Mariota is a much better QB that Winston,

Um ... you do realize that Jameis finished this season with a passer rating around 92-93 despite playing much of the year with a jacked THROWING shoulder, no running game at all and a horrible offensive line ... while Mariota finished with a rating in the 70s, towards the very bottom of the entire league despite having a good line, good running game and getting to be a game-manager who throws out of play action a lot, right? I mean, I like Mariota and all but he's nowhere close to the QB that Jameis is ... he's not even in the same ballpark as a QB that a coach hands the ball to and says, "carry this offense" ... he's a game-manager that a coach hands the ball to and says, "trust your running game and don't lose this game" ... Mariota is "better" than Winston in the way that Ken O'Brien was better than Elway, or in the way that Chad Pennington was better than Peyton Manning, or in the way that Alex Smith is better than Ben Roetlisberger ... I mean, come on man, it's not even close.

Winston has better receivers on his team than mariota has

Corey Davis, Matthews, Decker, Delanie, Tyshawn and DeMarco as a receiving back are nothing to sniff at ... Desean Jackson was a bust of a signing and never developed any real chemistry with Winston, quit on plays all the time, whined in the locker-room, etc ... Mike Evans is a beast but didn't even reach 1,000 yards this year. Jameis made Brate great and Humphries solid as both those dudes were UNDRAFTED free agents no one expected anything out of. Anyways, sure Jameis has a some more receiving talent, but that's got nothing to do with passer rating ... Derek Carr's receiving core is better than Alex Smith's but Smith had the higher passer rating ... Roethlisberger has a way better receiving core than just about anyone yet isn't even close to leading the league in passer rating ... a good ground game and line are far more important in helping a QB be efficient than receivers are ... and Mariota's line and running game is infinitely better than Jameis' this year ... and last year!

he also has a better offensive coordinator which we don't have.

What? The Bucs don't even have a real offensive coordinator ... they sort of claim Todd Monken is that but he's just a receivers coach and doesn't call any plays ... Koetter tries to pull double duty and it's pretty rough as he's considered one of the most predictable play callers in the entire NFL ... Bucs fans have been begging for him to be fired since last year. Mariota has the same guy he had last year ... it's not an excuse for being one of the worst QBs in the entire NFL this year.

I also think we could have destroyed the jags again, they are over hyped imo.

It's possible ... I just don't think the Jags cared if they won today and if there D is "on", they are nasty ... they destroyed the Steelers, so we know what their "ceiling" is, so to speak. I would have given the Titans a much better chance of winning against Jax than against KC though .... I think KC will crush them.

I also don't think Cousins is that good I certainly don't want him, I think must of the Titans failures and mariotas for that matter this year have been play calling, run, run, curl or slant route, how many times can you run the same plays before the defense catches on.

So you really think the Titans would be a better "team" with Mariota "only" than with Cousins, an extra 1st and 3rd round pick? Really? I don't know about that ...

Also his injury is more severe than just his hamstring, he has to have surgery yet again after the season to clean up scar tissue, I think there is a lot that is not being said about his injury,

I hope you're wrong, I really do like Marcus and don't want to see him hurt every single year ... but he's not a true pocket-passer so he may have an injury-riddled career ...

I think he will be fine if we get a better OC but that is just my opinion, I still have a lot of faith in him.

I don't understand that viewpoint as it's the same OC they had last year when Mariota had a very strong season ... it just seems to me that the coaching staff knows the team has to be run-first as he is not capable of being a gun-slinging, "carry an offense" type of QB ... and that's not bad, he could have a great career as an efficient game-manager ... are you saying you want to see him throw the ball as much as Jameis, Rodgers, Brady, Rivers and the gunslingers? I think that could be ugly.

I like Winston but I really worry about him some what because he has Evans, Brate, Jackson, Howard, Martin and they still can't make the playoffs, something is off there not sure what to attribute it to as I didn't watch him play much this year.

One, do yourself a favor and watch the entire Monday Night Football game they played two weeks ago against the Falcons and you will see what's wrong ... no QB can play a better game than Jameis played that night as the kid was 27-28 on his throws that weren't flat out dropped and his "clock spikes" ... 27-28!!!! And, he was NOT dinking and dunking and being a game-manager, he was throwing lasers all over the field, throwing into insanely tight windows, deep balls, etc. However ... he has NO RUNNING GAME to lean on at all and his line is horrible to the point he has to scramble for his life all the time. The Bucs passing game when Jameis is healthy is top 3 in the NFL ... but their running game, O-Line and entire defense is horrible; that's the problem.

2. Two, Brate was an undrafted free agent out of Harvard ... Jameis made him. Same for Adam Humphries. As for "Doug Martin", he is and has been (last year) one of the worst running backs in the entire NFL.

[lil5up3rman]

Umm what run game, Titans run game this year compared to last years was dismal at best. Murray has been hurt for most of the year but yet we tried to keep using him as our premier back instead of leaning on Henry while he gets healthy. As for our receiving core Decker is a bum period, dude has done nothing in TN except drop big passes as was the case sunday when he had 3 drops. Davis was hurt most of the year, we rarely use Tywan at this point, Walker as much as I love him has 3 or 4 end zone drops, and put the ball on the ground more than once this year. Mariota has also been hurt most of the year which is why he is having surgery in the off season as well. Yes our OC is the same guy from last year and he sucked then and he sucks now, most of our fans want the entire coaching staff gone, they are very predictable as to what they are going to do. As for the Winston vs Mariota debate I still don't agree with you, the Titans play calling is the one that keeps mariota from making big passes because those dinking and dunking passes are their play calling not marcus's, when they let him call the shots we go right down the field and we don't use the short pass to try and beat teams. Also yes Winston's numbers are better this year but they certainly weren't last year or their rc for that matter so how does 1 year make him a better qb on a team with better receivers. Again Davis was hurt most of the year and Decker is a bum, Taywan isn't used very often, Mathews is solid, and Walker has been up and down all year and our running game was hindered by injuries. Yes Martin hasn't been good which I agree with and it's sad because I actually do like him. Also you mentioned our line which is certainly not as good as last year, a prime example of it could have been seen in last sundays game against the jags even the commentators were commenting about how our line does not look nearly as good as it did last year.

Here are some stats on the two qb's, I like both of them but I still don't think Winston is better than Mariota sorry bud just my opinion.

Marcus:

2015: 61.8 percent Comp. % 2,818 yds 19td 10int QBR 91.5 2 rushing td's 1 rec. td
2016: 61.2 percent Comp. % 3,426 yds 26td 9int QBR 95.6 2 rushing td's
2017: 62 percent Comp. % 3,232 yds 13tds 15int QBR 79.3 5 rushing td's

Winston:
2015: 58.3 percent Comp. % 4,042 yards 22tds 15ints QBR 84.2 6 rushing td's
2016: 60.8 percent Comp. % 4,090 yards 28tds 18ints QBR 86.1 1 rushing td
2017: 63.8 percent Comp. & 3,504 yards 19tds 11ints QBR 92.2 1 rushing td

I see:
Mariota higher comp. % 2 of 3 years
Winston higher yardage total all 3 years
Winston higher td total 3 years
Winston more int's 2 of the 3 years
Mariota with a higher QBR 2 of the 3 years
Rushing td's Mariota has 1 more over his career.

To me the yardage and td's are pretty easy to explain Mariota plays on a team that tries to run the ball down the opponents throat even when it doesn't work, The Bucs try to air it out more, although this year Mariota has had more pass attempts which is kind of strange to me, did the bucs try to run more this year, only seen a few of their games and watch the red zone the rest of the time when my Titans aren't on tv. I like Winston so don't take this the wrong the way I do not think he is leaps and bounds ahead of Mariota. None of our recievers compare to Evans and by your account Jackson was about as useful as Decker so they virtually didn't exist and weren't good pick ups for either team. But I know the coaches in Tampa want Winston to air the ball out and push it down the field while the Titans think they can just run on every down and then try to pass on 3rd down and it's always a short route we rarely take shots down the field and when we have yes Mariota has missed some but we have also had a ton of drops by our receivers this year not to mention that those guys for some reason can't seem to get any separation our receiving core is over rated at best right now hopefully that changes and our running game is not nearly on the level they were last year nor is our line doing as well either. I can show you a ton of screen shots of people asking for Robiskie to be fired in my Titans groups, as well as Mularkey, Mariota, Murray, Decker and everyone else, the one I really think needs to go personally is Robiskie he is terrible and the play calling has been predictable and boring all year long, again I think a lot of Mariota's struggles are our terrible calls on offense and the fact that he has not been healthy at all most of the year yet he has played through most of it and I am worried about him having yet another surgery due to scar tissue buildup on top of his other injuries he has had this year. I will say I think Winston is a heck of a QB to and has managed to stay much healthier which is amazing with the Buc's line. I am in no way saying Winston is terrible it's just I still give a small edge to Mariota, I think both can have great careers if Mariota's career isn't ruined by injuries or terrible coaching first.

[Jameis1of1]

Umm what run game, Titans run game this year compared to last years was dismal at best.

And yet, it still blew away the Bucs run game ... that's my point.

Murray has been hurt for most of the year but yet we tried to keep using him as our premier back instead of leaning on Henry while he gets healthy. As for our receiving core Decker is a bum period, dude has done nothing in TN except drop big passes as was the case sunday when he had 3 drops. Davis was hurt most of the year, we rarely use Tywan at this point, Walker as much as I love him has 3 or 4 end zone drops, and put the ball on the ground more than once this year. Mariota has also been hurt most of the year which is why he is having surgery in the off season as well. Yes our OC is the same guy from last year and he sucked then and he sucks now, most of our fans want the entire coaching staff gone, they are very predictable as to what they are going to do.

I don't get ripping the O.C. ... Mariota was very efficient his first two years ... he's been one of the worst QBs in the league this year ... that's not on the O.C. when it's the same O.C. as the guy from the previous two years ... and as for Mariota's receivers, you can talk them down, but it's a better and deeper receiving corps than he had last year. So ... the same O.C. and a better receiving corps for Mariota but he has by far his worst year ever ... that's on him in my mind.

As for the Winston vs Mariota debate I still don't agree with you, the Titans play calling is the one that keeps mariota from making big passes because those dinking and dunking passes are their play calling not marcus's, when they let him call the shots we go right down the field and we don't use the short pass to try and beat teams.

I completely disagree with you. I have watched a lot of Mariota's games, a lot ... and he's just not a real QB to me ... he's a gimmicky game-manager like Dak. He NEEDS a great running game as nearly all his big plays come out of play-action when he gets wide-open wide receivers to throw to. I have hardly ever seen him even attempt difficult, tight-window, 15+ yard throws ... he shies away from them now just as he did in college. Now, don't misunderstand me ... I know Mariota "can" make some beautiful throws, but I honestly don't think he has very much confidence, and I think he plays overly safe as he's scared to make mistakes. That was actually the book on him before the draft and his mental makeup analysis was that he's a perfectionist who's afraid of making mistakes which causes him to play safe. To me, Mariota should be thanking the Titans O.C. for helping him put up very "efficient" stats his first two years, as he was not ready, and still isn't ready to just "carry an offense". The Jags game last week was a good example of that ... the team ran MORE than they threw ... the coaching staff does NOT trust Mariota in my view and I think it's pretty obvious. And NO, that does not mean I think Marcus is a bust or will flame out and be a career backup or anything like that ... I still believe Marcus can have a great career ... he just needs to play within his limitations ... and he has a lot of them.

Also yes Winston's numbers are better this year but they certainly weren't last year or their rc for that matter so how does 1 year make him a better qb on a team with better receivers.

Winston was always better, even in their 1st and 2nd years. This year, the gap was huge in Winston's favor, but it was still quite obvious Winston was the better QB in 2015 and 2016 as well. Now, notice I didn't say Winston was "more efficient" than Marcus in 2015-16 as he wasn't and no one expected him to be. A guy being asked to carry a team, call a ton of his own plays and win games behind a bad line should never be expected to be more efficient than a guy being asked to simply "manage" a game, trust his line and running game and not make any mistakes, as Marcus has been asked to do since Day 1. To me, Marcus is Mark Brunell to Jameis' Brett Favre, or Ken O'Brien to Jameis' John Elway, or Sam Bradford to Jameis' Philip Rivers, etc. Marcus is an efficient game-manager and Jameis is an offense carrying gunslinger.

Again Davis was hurt most of the year and Decker is a bum, Taywan isn't used very often, Mathews is solid, and Walker has been up and down all year and our running game was hindered by injuries.

Delanie Walker is great, Decker is not a "bum" by any stretch of the imagination ... and Taywan should have been used more and the running game was still good and far, far, far, far better than Tampa's.

Yes Martin hasn't been good which I agree with and it's sad because I actually do like him. Also you mentioned our line which is certainly not as good as last year, a prime example of it could have been seen in last sundays game against the jags even the commentators were commenting about how our line does not look nearly as good as it did last year.

I agree the Titans line hasn't played as good this year as they did last year but they are still far better than Tampa's line ... and Sacksonville just about kills every team's offensive line though.

Here are some stats on the two qb's, I like both of them but I still don't think Winston is better than Mariota sorry bud just my opinion.

Oh, no need to apologize as you're certainly entitled to your opinion, and I think you are definitely sincere ... sincerely wrong, but still sincere. I appreciate your posts and like replying to them.

Marcus:

2015: 61.8 percent Comp. % 2,818 yds 19td 10int QBR 91.5 2 rushing td's 1 rec. td
2016: 61.2 percent Comp. % 3,426 yds 26td 9int QBR 95.6 2 rushing td's
2017: 62 percent Comp. % 3,232 yds 13tds 15int QBR 79.3 5 rushing td's

Winston:
2015: 58.3 percent Comp. % 4,042 yards 22tds 15ints QBR 84.2 6 rushing td's
2016: 60.8 percent Comp. % 4,090 yards 28tds 18ints QBR 86.1 1 rushing td
2017: 63.8 percent Comp. & 3,504 yards 19tds 11ints QBR 92.2 1 rushing td

I see:
Mariota higher comp. % 2 of 3 years
Winston higher yardage total all 3 years
Winston higher td total 3 years
Winston more int's 2 of the 3 years
Mariota with a higher QBR 2 of the 3 years
Rushing td's Mariota has 1 more over his career.[/quote]

Just a quick note FYI ... you listed their "passer rating" not their "QBR" ... passer rating and QBR are not the same thing though many fans mix the two up all the time. QBR is the absolute best "game by game" stat for a QB but it's basically meaningless and sort of a joke stat if it's used as a "season stat" as it doesn't weight performances based on use. Passer rating is not exactly a "comprehensive state" but it's a good "season stat" nonetheless.

Anyways ... a game-manager should ALWAYS have quite a bit better passer rating than a gunslinger ... but Mariota was just slightly higher his first two years and got crushed by Jameis this year ... and Jameis has been gun-slinging since Day 1.

To me the yardage and td's are pretty easy to explain Mariota plays on a team that tries to run the ball down the opponents throat even when it doesn't work, The Bucs try to air it out more, although this year Mariota has had more pass attempts which is kind of strange to me, did the bucs try to run more this year, only seen a few of their games and watch the red zone the rest of the time when my Titans aren't on tv. I like Winston so don't take this the wrong the way I do not think he is leaps and bounds ahead of Mariota. None of our recievers compare to Evans and by your account Jackson was about as useful as Decker so they virtually didn't exist and weren't good pick ups for either team. But I know the coaches in Tampa want Winston to air the ball out and push it down the field while the Titans think they can just run on every down and then try to pass on 3rd down and it's always a short route we rarely take shots down the field and when we have yes Mariota has missed some but we have also had a ton of drops by our receivers this year not to mention that those guys for some reason can't seem to get any separation our receiving core is over rated at best right now hopefully that changes and our running game is not nearly on the level they were last year nor is our line doing as well either. I can show you a ton of screen shots of people asking for Robiskie to be fired in my Titans groups, as well as Mularkey, Mariota, Murray, Decker and everyone else, the one I really think needs to go personally is Robiskie he is terrible and the play calling has been predictable and boring all year long, again I think a lot of Mariota's struggles are our terrible calls on offense and the fact that he has not been healthy at all most of the year yet he has played through most of it and I am worried about him having yet another surgery due to scar tissue buildup on top of his other injuries he has had this year. I will say I think Winston is a heck of a QB to and has managed to stay much healthier which is amazing with the Buc's line. I am in no way saying Winston is terrible it's just I still give a small edge to Mariota, I think both can have great careers if Mariota's career isn't ruined by injuries or terrible coaching first.

Again, I like your posts and you're obviously sincere, so I like replying to you. However, I think you're making a classic mistake of thinking a game-manager could be a gunslinger if only he was given the chance and that's just not true. I like to explain it as follows ... to me NFL QBs are akin to NBA SGs ... Ray Allen was far, far, far more "efficient" than Kobe Bryant could even dream to be, but Kobe was ALWAYS the more dominant offensive player and the player that scared defenses more. There are people who don't understand backetball that just "look at the stats" and say, "well, had Ray Allen been allowed to take as many shots as Kobe, he would have scored even more because he was more efficient" ... such people simply don't have a clue what they're talking about. Phil Jackson once summed it up by something like, "People don't realize how much talent you have to have and how hard it is to even get 30 shots up in a game". And, it's the same with QBs ... to throw the ball 50+ times in a game that isn't some blowout you're needing to catch-up in means that you (a) have the complete trust of your coaching staff and that they know you are an "offense carrying QB", (b) have the arm talent to make every throw required, (c) are great enough to continue to have passing plays called for you even when the defense is keyed to stopping the pass and ignoring the run, etc. That is Jameis. Jameis is to Kobe as Mariota is to Ray Allen. Mariota can be very efficient playing within his own strengths but he simply doesn't even have the ability to be a gun-slinger which is why his coaching staff won't allow him to be a gunslinger ... he's just not that kind of QB ... and that's not necessarily a bad thing as if the Titans can always surround him with a great line, great running and solid defense, he shouldn't need to be a gunslinger to have great success. Jameis is just a different animal altogether ... he has HOF arm talent and a mental makeup of other HOF gunslingers (I posted a link to his pre-draft mental makeup profile on the Jameis thread which explains this) and he seriously just looks, acts and plays like a guy that was created to be a star QB1 in the NFL.

[Nightmare]

Jameis1of1, I agree with a lot of your statements. I've always been critical of Mariota especially in comparisson with Jameis. To me Mariota isn't the QB to carry a team. Now could he get there.... maybe. To me I think the coaching staff isn't cantering to the talent they have, they have tried by letting Mariota run as much as he does on bootlegs and option plays..... that works in college but not so much in the NFL. The defense is too fast and eventually your QB is going to loose a step and not be able out run the LB. To me they need to get a QB coach that will get Mariota to become a pocket passer first and run second. I thought the way McNair transformed his game is a prime example what they need to do with Mariota..... shoot even McNaab.


I completely disagree with you. I have watched a lot of Mariota's games, a lot ... and he's just not a real QB to me ... he's a gimmicky game-manager like Dak. He NEEDS a great running game as nearly all his big plays come out of play-action when he gets wide-open wide receivers to throw to. I have hardly ever seen him even attempt difficult, tight-window, 15+ yard throws ... he shies away from them now just as he did in college. Now, don't misunderstand me ... I know Mariota "can" make some beautiful throws, but I honestly don't think he has very much confidence, and I think he plays overly safe as he's scared to make mistakes. That was actually the book on him before the draft and his mental makeup analysis was that he's a perfectionist who's afraid of making mistakes which causes him to play safe. To me, Mariota should be thanking the Titans O.C. for helping him put up very "efficient" stats his first two years, as he was not ready, and still isn't ready to just "carry an offense". The Jags game last week was a good example of that ... the team ran MORE than they threw ... the coaching staff does NOT trust Mariota in my view and I think it's pretty obvious. And NO, that does not mean I think Marcus is a bust or will flame out and be a career backup or anything like that ... I still believe Marcus can have a great career ... he just needs to play within his limitations ... and he has a lot of them.

I agree with this, they need to work with this kid more



Winston was always better, even in their 1st and 2nd years. This year, the gap was huge in Winston's favor, but it was still quite obvious Winston was the better QB in 2015 and 2016 as well. Now, notice I didn't say Winston was "more efficient" than Marcus in 2015-16 as he wasn't and no one expected him to be. A guy being asked to carry a team, call a ton of his own plays and win games behind a bad line should never be expected to be more efficient than a guy being asked to simply "manage" a game, trust his line and running game and not make any mistakes, as Marcus has been asked to do since Day 1. To me, Marcus is Mark Brunell to Jameis' Brett Favre, or Ken O'Brien to Jameis' John Elway, or Sam Bradford to Jameis' Philip Rivers, etc. Marcus is an efficient game-manager and Jameis is an offense carrying gunslinger.



Delanie Walker is great, Decker is not a "bum" by any stretch of the imagination ... and Taywan should have been used more and the running game was still good and far, far, far, far better than Tampa's.

I agree with this, Walker is a top 5 TE and Decker is a great slot guy so the recievers are good, they aren't great but they are good.

I agree the Titans line hasn't played as good this year as they did last year but they are still far better than Tampa's line ... and Sacksonville just about kills every team's offensive line though.







Again, I like your posts and you're obviously sincere, so I like replying to you. However, I think you're making a classic mistake of thinking a game-manager could be a gunslinger if only he was given the chance and that's just not true. I like to explain it as follows ... to me NFL QBs are akin to NBA SGs ... Ray Allen was far, far, far more "efficient" than Kobe Bryant could even dream to be, but Kobe was ALWAYS the more dominant offensive player and the player that scared defenses more. There are people who don't understand backetball that just "look at the stats" and say, "well, had Ray Allen been allowed to take as many shots as Kobe, he would have scored even more because he was more efficient" ... such people simply don't have a clue what they're talking about. Phil Jackson once summed it up by something like, "People don't realize how much talent you have to have and how hard it is to even get 30 shots up in a game". And, it's the same with QBs ... to throw the ball 50+ times in a game that isn't some blowout you're needing to catch-up in means that you (a) have the complete trust of your coaching staff and that they know you are an "offense carrying QB", (b) have the arm talent to make every throw required, (c) are great enough to continue to have passing plays called for you even when the defense is keyed to stopping the pass and ignoring the run, etc. That is Jameis. Jameis is to Kobe as Mariota is to Ray Allen. Mariota can be very efficient playing within his own strengths but he simply doesn't even have the ability to be a gun-slinger which is why his coaching staff won't allow him to be a gunslinger ... he's just not that kind of QB ... and that's not necessarily a bad thing as if the Titans can always surround him with a great line, great running and solid defense, he shouldn't need to be a gunslinger to have great success. Jameis is just a different animal altogether ... he has HOF arm talent and a mental makeup of other HOF gunslingers (I posted a link to his pre-draft mental makeup profile on the Jameis thread which explains this) and he seriously just looks, acts and plays like a guy that was created to be a star QB1 in the NFL.[/QUOTE]




I understand this analogy, but it's different. Kobe was great a creating space with/without the ball while Allen was an efficient shooter. They both played their roles. Neither one of them could change the way they were because they needed to play those roles. I don't think it's impossible to change a mobile QB to a smart pocket passer who can run when the play breaks down. It has happened with others and I don't see why Mariota can't do it now. You need to create better routes for him to hit. Deep posts, streaks and deep curls isn't going to do it. These are good occasionally to keep the defense honest but quick routes are needed until he can feel the pace of the game and then let him loose. IMO

[Jameis1of1]

I understand this analogy, but it's different. Kobe was great a creating space with/without the ball while Allen was an efficient shooter. They both played their roles. Neither one of them could change the way they were because they needed to play those roles. I don't think it's impossible to change a mobile QB to a smart pocket passer who can run when the play breaks down. It has happened with others and I don't see why Mariota can't do it now. You need to create better routes for him to hit. Deep posts, streaks and deep curls isn't going to do it. These are good occasionally to keep the defense honest but quick routes are needed until he can feel the pace of the game and then let him loose. IMO

As you agreed with me on the other stuff, I'll just reply to your above comment.

I don't disagree with you, but honestly, I don't think you disagree with my original statement, I think you're just arguing from a different angle. I'm not SAYING that a game-manager without elite arm talent can't "rack up stats" ... Rich Gannon did it, so I believe Mariota could do it too ... I just meant he's not the kind of QB you can just throw a complete playbook at and ask to make "every throw". We saw what McVay did with Goff this year and how much better both Cousins and Matt Ryan's stats were with Kyle Shanahan, so I do think the right O.C. and the right system could turn Mariota into a guy who puts up big numbers ... but even if that happens, Mariota still won't be a true gunslinger that can carry any type of offense and make all the throws.

People get mad when I say this, but Joe Montana, even though he was far "greater" than Marino and deserves to be tanked higher on a GOAT list, was nowhere near as good as Marino. You could throw Marino on any team, in any system, hand him the ball and say, "carry us" and he'd do it ... he's not winning a ring without a great team, but he will carry a team. Montana was not the same type of QB ... and I doubt Joe Cool cares as he had the better career ... the same could happen with Mariota and Winston, the Titans could easily surround Mariota with the right O.C. and system and teammates to turn him into a guy who wins rings and has a great career, while Jameis could be another Marino, always being the man, with everyone always knowing he's "better", but a guy who never wins a ring and therefore won't be considered as "great" ... football is the ultimate TEAM sport and there is just so much that goes into creating player's legacies ... most fans just have a very basis concept of things and don't think very deeply about player comparisons though ...

[lil5up3rman]

Robiskie is terrible as an OC sorry bro not changing my mind there, there is a reason nearly everyone in my Titans group wants him gone now, our playing calling is terrible everyone knows what we are going to do before we do it. As for him being a gun slinger he proved he could do that against the colts this year when they wouldn't let him run due to his injuries he couldn't run and made a lot of good passes that game well beyond 10 yards. The face that he is not being a gun slinger as you call it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that they don't trust him to be one and everything to do with our run first identity, as for Decker he is a bum what has he done in TN, nothing and he has had some huge drops our best receiver is Mathews, I think it could be Davis in the long run but he is not yet there, Walker is good but he has had a rough year compared to how he usually plays as well, drops including 3-4 end zone drops which were easy catches and Mariota would not be in the negative on the TD/INT scale on his drops alone, and he is not the only receiver to drop easy end zone catches this year, we have been plagued with drops, also Walker normally doesn't fumble yet he has had some critical ones this year. If Mariota can't pick it up next year then I will likely change my mind on him, but he has not been healthy most of this year and I do think that hurts his stat line as well. I like Taywan but until we use him you can't say he is better than anyone as he is just not playing enough to really know how good he is on this level. People are quick to just knock Mariota but the entire team took a step back offensively this year, receiving core can't get separation, dropped critical passes, fumbles, running game not playing at nearly the level they were last year, lackluster offensive play calling, all of these things have hurt his stat line as well, He didn't help himself either and has made some terrible decisions as well. Winston is on a team that is more pass friendly as well which allows him more opportunities to sling it around, TN is and always has been for the most part a ground and pound team, I would love to see them air it out but starting to think I will never in my life time see the Titans be a true pass first offense. Also the Titans have a bad past with picking receivers in the draft almost none of our picks have really panned out in TN in some time, I hope that changes with Davis and Taylor but that remains to be seen. I do want to address Decker one last time he hasn't done anything since 15 in 16 he had one td and only has 2 this year. He had some great years and was pretty good but he past 2 years have been terrible in terms of production sorry that guy has done nothing for TN, I was hoping he could return to form with us but he hasn't, he looks slow sluggish and can't get separation on a consistent basis, i'll trade you Evans for him lol, I just don't think he was a good pick up for us at all.

[Jameis1of1]

[QUOTE=lil5up3rman;14546710]

I'm going to pick out a few statements you made to comment on ...

As for him being a gun slinger he proved he could do that against the colts this year when they wouldn't let him run due to his injuries he couldn't run and made a lot of good passes that game well beyond 10 yards.

I don't think you understand what I mean by "gunslinger" as Mariota was not even close to one in that Colts game ... I watched the whole thing and even in that game, he was carried by his running game. Henry and DeMarco combined for 31 carries for 171 YARDS and 2 TDs ... they were dominant and Mariota was able to throw to open receivers out of play-action much of that game. THAT is when Mariota is really effective, when he's being carried by his running game and can just pass out of play-action.

The face that he is not being a gun slinger as you call it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that they don't trust him to be one and everything to do with our run first identity,

No, it doesn't at all imho. The Titans have a run-first mentality because the coaching staff knows Marcus is NOT a gunslinger and not capable of carrying an offense. There is NO WAY that QBs like Jameis, Marino, Favre and the like would ever be put in a run-first offence by any coaching staff as they are the guys that carry an offense ... Mariota is like Dak, Alex Smith, Sam Bradford, etc ... he's a solid game-manager that NEEDS a dominant running game. Cam Newton is the same way ... it's just that he also provides the running game he needs, but as a pure passer, he's below average.

If Mariota can't pick it up next year then I will likely change my mind on him, but he has not been healthy most of this year and I do think that hurts his stat line as well.

If Mariota has another season with more INTs than TDs and a passer rating in the 70s, the Titans won't pick up his 5th year option and he'll likely only be signed by a team needing a backup QB ... I definitely do NOT think that is going to happen as I think Marcus will have a solid year next year, but we'll see.

Winston is on a team that is more pass friendly as well which allows him more opportunities to sling it around, TN is and always has been for the most part a ground and pound team, I would love to see them air it out but starting to think I will never in my life time see the Titans be a true pass first offense.

I still don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. Jameis is THE REASON the Bucs are a "pass first offense" and Mariota is THE REASON the Titans are a "run first offense" ... ALL NFL coaches call plays according to their personnel and strengths and weaknesses. If Mariota would have went #1 over, the team likely would have drafted a RB in the same draft and built a run-first offense that relied on play-action passing as that is what Mariota's skill-set dictates and if the Titans had then drafted Jameis #2, they would have immediately installed a pass-first offense and let Jameis sling the pigskin ... that's sort of my whole point ... Jameis and Marcus are just not even close to the same type of player.

i'll trade you Evans for him lol, I just don't think he was a good pick up for us at all.

Gimme Lewan, Conklin, Henry and Decker and I'll happily give you Evans, Sweezy, Dotson and Doug Martin, hahahaha.