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  1. #1

    Question Most under-rated & over-rated players ever

    Most Over-Rated Players Ever:


    PG: (Tie) Steve Nash ... as many MVP's as Shaq and Kobe combined ... ridiculous

    and

    Steph Curry ... a one-way player playing on an All-Star team who gets too much credit for his team's successes

    SG: Michael Jordan ... far too much revisionist history; see: https://hoopshype.com/2014/03/12/wha...-jordans-game/

    SF: Kevin Durant ... too much credit for a guy who only won a ring after joining an All-Star team with four other future HOF'ers

    PF: Kevin McHale ... actually considered the GOAT PF by quite a few ... no, I'm not joking

    C: Bill Russell .... he was Tayshaun Prince's size ... seriously


    Most Under-Rated Players Ever:


    PG: Isaih Thomas ... won titles in what is widely considered the best NBA era ever and went through Bird'S Celtics & Magic/Kareem Lakers to do so!

    SG: Clyde Drexler ... possibly the 3rd greatest SG ever and the 2nd most well-rounded SG in history, yet is seemingly forgotten

    SF: (Tie) Scottie Pippen ... Jordan was 5-15 in the playoffs without Pippen and NEVER won a single playoff series without Pip, yet the Bulls were just 2 games worse over an entire season without Jordan but with Pip!

    and

    Dominque Wilkins ... his "teams" sucked and therefore he never experienced the team success necessary to be valued as he should be

    PF: Kevin Garnett ... the most well-rounded PF that ever lived; could run the point and dominate down low on offense and guard all 5 positions on defense in his prime

    C: Kareem ... he has a better claim to GOAT status than Jordan yet is often ranked behind Jordan, Lebron, Russell and even Chamberlain, Kobe, Magic and Bird


    YOUR THOUGHTS?
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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Jameis1of1 View Post
    SG: Michael Jordan ... far too much revisionist history; see: https://hoopshype.com/2014/03/12/wha...-jordans-game/]
    How can it be too much revisionist history when he was being praised while still playing? I don't need to see some basketball blog from 2014 which is a decade after Jordan stopped playing to tell me what happened in the 90s. I was there and have seen the quality of play in the NBA fall apart because nobody learns any skills by playing in college anymore.

    Also the only revisionist history that has happened is that now Lebron takes over for the "better than Jordan" torch that was all about Kobe for years. You can even go back and read the old threads on here where Kobe was "better than Jordan" after so many years. Now those people have all faded back into the bushes and reappeared with Lebron jerseys while EVERYONE has abandoned the Kobe is the greatest of all time thinking.
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  4. #3
    My thoughts in blue

    Quote Originally Posted by Jameis1of1 View Post
    Most Over-Rated Players Ever:


    PG: (Tie) Steve Nash ... as many MVP's as Shaq and Kobe combined ... ridiculous
    Nash deserved both MVP's, it doesn't mean he's better than Shaq and Kobe. It just happened to happen that way. As great as Kobe was over a very long period of time, ironically there wasn't really a period where he was the undisputed best player/MVP in the league. Nash's first MVP could have gone to either him or Shaq. The second MVP was a large field of deserving players but he was certainly one of them. Strangely enough, Nash almost had 3 MVPs (2007) and Kobe almost had 0 (could have lost to Chris Paul in 2008). I don't think anyone should look at that and say Nash wasn't deserving and/or it reflects poorly on Kobe or Shaq or any other player that has only one MVP but is regarded as a better overall player than Nash.


    and

    Steph Curry ... a one-way player playing on an All-Star team who gets too much credit for his team's successes
    Agree to an extent but not enough to consider him one of the most overrated players ever


    SG: Michael Jordan ... far too much revisionist history; see: https://hoopshype.com/2014/03/12/what-was-wrong-with-michael-jordans-game/
    I agree with pwaldo on this one

    SF: Kevin Durant ... too much credit for a guy who only won a ring after joining an All-Star team with four other future HOF'ers
    Like Curry, agree to an extent but not enough to consider him one of the most overrated players ever

    PF: Kevin McHale ... actually considered the GOAT PF by quite a few ... no, I'm not joking
    Before my time but from everything I know, I'm with you on this one

    C: Bill Russell .... he was Tayshaun Prince's size ... seriously
    Agree but not too fair to put him here, lack of competitive teams and amount of teams in the league played a role too. It would have been interesting to see him in a more current era.

    Most Under-Rated Players Ever:


    PG: Isaih Thomas ... won titles in what is widely considered the best NBA era ever and went through Bird'S Celtics & Magic/Kareem Lakers to do so!
    Great points

    SG: Clyde Drexler ... possibly the 3rd greatest SG ever and the 2nd most well-rounded SG in history, yet is seemingly forgotten
    I don't think he was that underrated, seems to get the credit he deserves. Maybe slightly underrated.

    SF: (Tie) Scottie Pippen ... Jordan was 5-15 in the playoffs without Pippen and NEVER won a single playoff series without Pip, yet the Bulls were just 2 games worse over an entire season without Jordan but with Pip!
    Agree
    and

    Dominque Wilkins ... his "teams" sucked and therefore he never experienced the team success necessary to be valued as he should be
    Agree

    PF: Kevin Garnett ... the most well-rounded PF that ever lived; could run the point and dominate down low on offense and guard all 5 positions on defense in his prime
    He's awesome but I don't think he's underrated at all. Surprised to see him here. Who underrates him?

    C: Kareem ... he has a better claim to GOAT status than Jordan yet is often ranked behind Jordan, Lebron, Russell and even Chamberlain, Kobe, Magic and Bird
    Same as Garnett, I don't know how you would think he's been underrated lol. It's hard to have a basketball greatest players conversation without someone instantly bringing him up.


    YOUR THOUGHTS?
    Also my list of most overrated and underrated:

    Overrated:
    PG Tony Parker (great player but a bit overrated to me, playing with Duncan and winning championships really hyped him more than it should have. He did have a great run though.)
    SG Klay Thompson (All star player and an amazing shooter but seems overrated. What if he wasn't in a great system like the Warriors?)
    SF Carmelo Anthony (great individual player and scorer, but always seemed selfish and not interested in winning or playing in a system)
    PF McHale (same points as original poster)
    C Parrish (what if he wasn't on Boston?, before my time so maybe others can provide more/better insight)

    Underrated:
    PG Gilbert Arenas (people will probably laugh at this one but does anyone remember how great this guy was before injuries and incidents?)
    SG Tracy McGrady (on Kobe's level during his peak, injuries and playing past his prime tarnished his legacy quite a bit)
    SF Shawn Marion (fit great into a system that never even ran plays for him, Unorthodox style but did a bit of everything)
    PF Antawn Jamison (if he had better teams and more success in the playoffs he likely would have got the attention he deserved)
    C Dirk Nowitzki (gets a ton of attention but still seems underrated to me. He typically appears just inside the top 30 on most all-time lists I see, should be higher in my opinion)
    Last edited by Quagmire41; 05-17-2018 at 09:00 AM.
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  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by pwaldo View Post
    How can it be too much revisionist history when he was being praised while still playing?
    I watched Jordan's career unfold, many times in person, and he was also ripped while he was playing ... for a long-time he was consider a ball hog and shot-chucker and a guy who cared more about stats than winning and a guy who could never "lead" a team, and a jerk of a teammate, and a jerk of a human being, etc., etc., etc.,. It wasn't until after he won his 6th ring that the narrative on him completely changed and he turned into a mythological figure and that irks me. Jordanairre's want to pretend he didn't go 1-9 in the playoffs without Pippen, that he didn't have a losing record in all 5 seasons he played without Pippen, that he didn't fail to win a single ring without Pippen and Phil Jackson, that the Bulls didn't only lose 2 more games without him when he retired than they did with him the previous year, etc., etc., etc ... it's irksome.

    I don't need to see some basketball blog from 2014 which is a decade after Jordan stopped playing to tell me what happened in the 90s. I was there and have seen the quality of play in the NBA fall apart because nobody learns any skills by playing in college anymore.
    You and I must have been watching a different sport as I had season tickets in Jordan's hey day and the defenses SUCKED league wide ... I mean, all one has to do is look at the league-wide team scoring averages in Jordan's career and compare them to the same in Kobe's career to see just how porous the defenses were in Jordan's era ... they were horrible. They were more physical and dirty but nowhere near as disciplined or schematically advanced as they were in Kobe's era and the stats bare that out perfectly. Things are starting to get back to where they were in Jordan's era right now as league-wide scoring is increasing over the past few years, but it's still not where it was in Jordan's era as the defenses are far more advanced.

    As for overall "quality of play" ... again, we must have been watching two different sports. In Jordan's era nearly all teams were led by one single superstar and a bunch of role players ... today is the era of super teams. The teams Jordan beat in the Finals, every single one of them, would have been blown off the court by the current Warriors team. Likewise the players Jordan matched up head to head against in his Finals such as Jeff Hornacek (twice), Hersey Hawkins, Dan Majerle and Byron Scott may not even start on quality teams in today's NBA. Clyde Drexler was the only true superstar SG Jordan ever matched up against in his Finals ... compare that to LeBron who has gone against Kawhi (twice) and Durant (twice) or Kobe who went head to head with Reggie Miller, Allen Iverson and Ray Allen (twice).

    Likewise physical freaks at the wing positions like Giannis, Durant, Kawhi, Porzingis, Simmons, etc., which are prevalent today were basically non-existent in Jordan's era ... Jordan was the physical freak. Heck, I even remember the announcers raving about a guy Jordan played in the Finals and how he was so much more athletic than most players ... you know who that was? The immortal Richard Dumas of the Suns ... HAHAHAHAHAHA ... what a joke.

    Also the only revisionist history that has happened is that now Lebron takes over for the "better than Jordan" torch that was all about Kobe for years.
    LeBron is still playing, could play another 5-6 years and is already smashing basically every statistical mark Jordan ever set, so I'm not sure how you can say anything about LeBron is "revisionist history" at this time. Now, in 20 years if millennials make up nearly 100% of the talking heads and they are saying that LeBron could do no wrong, would have won 20 straight titles had he had Pippen, that Jordan was a bum compared to him, that he was the most clutch free throw shooter ever, etc., etc., etc., THAT will qualify as revisionist history and I can be irked by those millennials ignorance and revisionist nonsense, and can start reminding people just how great Jordan was ... I do that with Otto Graham in football as he's basically forgotten and everyone wants to just rave about Tom Brady. I'm not a "prisoner of the moment" and have no problems putting accomplishments into historical perspective which is why I defend Otto as the true GOAT over the "flavor of the day" Brady, but also why I say that while I watched Jordan's career unfold, it's obvious to me LeBron has passed him as the true GOAT even though Jordan is still, for now, regarded as the GOAT by most in the media.

    You can even go back and read the old threads on here where Kobe was "better than Jordan" after so many years. Now those people have all faded back into the bushes and reappeared with Lebron jerseys while EVERYONE has abandoned the Kobe is the greatest of all time thinking.
    I highly, highly, highly doubt any of the big-time Kobe fans are now touting LeBron as the GOAT ... Kobe still has a ton of support as the GOAT from his fans and most of his fans seem to despise LeBron and like Jordan way more as Jordan was the original Kobe and Kobe compares way more favorably to Jordan than he does to LeBron. In fact, Kobe is my favorite player of all-time and I was even able to buy my first house with cash after selling off all my Kobe cards which made me a killing, so I have all the reason in the world to support Kobe ... but even I can see that Kobe pales in comparison to LeBron. Kobe stacks up very well to Jordan ... he doesn't belong ahead of Jordan on a GOAT list imho but I do believe he had the more varied offensive arsenal, was a better pure scorer, obviously had more longevity than Jordan ... and had Karl Malone and later Andrew Bynum not got hurt, could have finished a perfect seven for seven in NBA Finals to even top Jordan's ring count. However, Kobe doesn't compare to LeBron at all. LeBron is the better passer, rebounder, man defender, team defender, efficient scorer, teammate, leader, and is more durable ... I mean, I love Kobe so, so, so, so much more than LeBron, but he doesn't compare to LeBron at all ... and neither does Jordan.

    Saying Jordan is better than LeBron is like the old guys who said Bob Cousy was better than Magic Johnson or the guys who said Bill Russell was better than Shaq ... it's just silly.
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    We champions ... through everything that we went through, through all the haters ... we came out victorious. And God did this. I’m so blessed.
    – Jameis Winston, after winning BCS National Championship game

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