On his 31st birthday, where does Sidney Crosby rank in hockey history?

[pwskelly]

In my opinion, he is a top 10 player in the history of the NHL already, considering all he has accomplished already.
3 Stanley Cups in the cap era, 6th all time in PPG is an era where goals are much more hard to come by.

Agreed, and when you consider the NHL's (and Crosby's) past involvement in international events such as the Olympics (2 gold medals) and the Canada Cup, etc. I think that only adds to his already impressive resume. Let's face it, whether its the World Juniors, or the Olympics, or the Stanley Cup ... the man has won it all.

"Internationally, Crosby has represented Team Canada on numerous occasions. He won gold at the 2005 World Junior Championships, and was later named to Team Canada for the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver. Playing against the United States in the gold medal game, he scored the game-winning goal in overtime. Crosby captained Team Canada at the 2014 Winter Olympics, winning his second consecutive Olympic gold medal. A year later, he led his country to gold in the World Championship in Prague, thus becoming a member of the Triple Gold Club and the only player in the club to have captained all three winning teams. In 2016, Crosby captained Canada to gold in the World Cup of Hockey and was elected MVP by a unanimous vote." Source - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidney_Crosby

There's not much he hasn't won at the levels he has participated in and in most of these cases he's been the captain or an alternate captain. A lot of people look at Mark Messier as one of the greatest leaders in hockey, and I'd argue that a player like Crosby needs to be right next to Messier given what he has done for the teams he has captained.

[09232003]

IMO Sidney Crosby ranks in the Top 5 right Know.....his resume or accomplishmnets are very impressive, he has won almost everything there is to win, stanley cups, junior champs, world champs, olympic champs, etc.

His style of play serves his team and team mates well, his makes other players play better and look better, his leadership is second to none

I think when he does retires his will be in the top 3-4 all time.

[30ranfordfan]

Yup. I agree.

Honestly, let's keep the debate to the Penguins for a moment: If Sidney Crosby retires tomorrow - IMO - he is the greatest Pittsburgh Penguin of all time. That's saying something, because yes... Crosby career >>>> Lemieux's.

Call it semantics... and this is where the "best" vs "great" thing comes into play for me.... but I'd say Lemieux was the better player, while Crosby has had the greater career.

Overall, yeah, I'm calling him the 4th greatest player of all time now (Gretzky, Orr, Howe are the three ahead).

He's currently the 61st alltime leading scorer. I'd be surprised if he doesn't break 1200 career points this year (assume reasonable health). If he can his 100, 100, 85, 75 points over the next 4 years (he'll still be under 35, I think that's very reasonable) he'll be sitting somewhere around 15th all time. The idea that he'll crack 1500 points in his career seems like a lock (assume health) and 1600 seems likely. That's top 10 range, but not a lock, and I don't think THAT important to be considered "greater" than most of the guys above him. His been an elite scorer for more than a decade, with multiple championships. His resume is more impressive that virtually anyone to have played the game. I think the day when he moves into the 3 slot can happen - I doubt he over takes #1 or #2... but if he can pull a Tom Brady, and just continue to be Sidney Crosby until he's 40, who knows?

IMO Sidney Crosby ranks in the Top 5 right Know.....his resume or accomplishmnets are very impressive, he has won almost everything there is to win, stanley cups, junior champs, world champs, olympic champs, etc.

His style of play serves his team and team mates well, his makes other players play better and look better, his leadership is second to none

I think when he does retires his will be in the top 3-4 all time.

[Leafsman]

Yup. I agree.

Honestly, let's keep the debate to the Penguins for a moment: If Sidney Crosby retires tomorrow - IMO - he is the greatest Pittsburgh Penguin of all time. That's saying something, because yes... Crosby career >>>> Lemieux's.

Call it semantics... and this is where the "best" vs "great" thing comes into play for me.... but I'd say Lemieux was the better player, while Crosby has had the greater career.

Overall, yeah, I'm calling him the 4th greatest player of all time now (Gretzky, Orr, Howe are the three ahead).

He's currently the 61st alltime leading scorer. I'd be surprised if he doesn't break 1200 career points this year (assume reasonable health). If he can his 100, 100, 85, 75 points over the next 4 years (he'll still be under 35, I think that's very reasonable) he'll be sitting somewhere around 15th all time. The idea that he'll crack 1500 points in his career seems like a lock (assume health) and 1600 seems likely. That's top 10 range, but not a lock, and I don't think THAT important to be considered "greater" than most of the guys above him. His been an elite scorer for more than a decade, with multiple championships. His resume is more impressive that virtually anyone to have played the game. I think the day when he moves into the 3 slot can happen - I doubt he over takes #1 or #2... but if he can pull a Tom Brady, and just continue to be Sidney Crosby until he's 40, who knows?

Mario Lemieux is still better than Crosby. Remember, every cup Crosby won is directly related to Lemieux - who co-owns the team. If Lemieux and the rest of the ownership group didn't step up to buy the team when they did, I firmly believe there would be no Pittsburgh Penguins. Also, every cup Crosby won has been won by Lemieux as well. Lemieux has 5 cups, Crosby only 3.

1. Wayne Gretzky
2. Gordie Howe
3. Bobby Orr
4. Jaromir Jagr
5. Maurice Richard
6. Martin Brodeur (yes, he's better than Roy in my opinion, for a number of reasons)
7. Ray Bourque
8. Patrick Roy
9. Henri Richard (11 Stanley Cups? Definitely top ten. @ me if you want)
10. Nicklas Lidstrom

Crosby isn't close. I rank Steve Yzerman, Mario Lemieux, Paul Coffey, Jean Beliveau (10 cups as a player and 7 more as an executive!), Mark Messier, and Dominik Hasek (six Vezinas not to mention 2 Hart trophies as a GOALIE?) above him too. Yes, he's been part of three championships. He won the Conn Smythe when he won his last cup but he should not have, sorry. Phil Kessel was a BEAST that year and deserved it more, but Crosby got it for his "leadership". What a crock!! He got it on reputation alone, and that's wrong. Then again, awards are a popularity contest anyway...

[doniceage]

A nice stat comparison of Crosby and Mario a year ago:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...sidney-crosby/
@30ranfordfan

I think you bring up a good point @Leafsman when you bring in Mario off ice component. Will have to give time for Crosby to get there.

Don

[BSEBALLCOMMISH75]

Greetings:
IMO Squidney is still a whiny guy who goes to the referees to ask for help in calling penalties if they skate near him or they slam him against the boards. Ovie is a better scorer than Squids he does his scoring in unbelievable ways. Heck even Matthews is better going to the net to score than Squids. It's bad enough that NBCSC doesn't stand for National Broadcast Company Sports Channel its actually Nobody But Crybaby Squidney Channel. He can be sitting on the bench & the announcers will talk about how great he's doing. If he's not on the screen for more than 5 seconds they have to show him even if he's on or off the ice. A player can have a great game with 4 goals against him but he gets 1 point some degree & they break it down more how he got that point compared to guy who got the 4 goals against him. If you don't believe me on this watch any game count how much he is mentioned compared to his opponents & make it a drinking game every mention,showing him,or anything else about him you drink see how drunk you are after the 1st period. Another thing when he won his first cup against Detroit he got clobbered by the Wings in the second period but once he heard that the Penguins won the Cup he mustered his strength to raise it saying I'm not hurt I just wanted to fake my injury so that I could get Wings in trouble cause they couldn't beat me with their players in the penalty box cause I whined good to referees so I can get a ring & not be like waiting like Ray Bourque did late in my career. So is he 1 of the best players in the game no he's not he's just a whiny little guy who still can't grow a playoff beard instead he grows a little pre-teen type mustache & thinks that is version of a playoff beard. @doniceage also his b-day I thought was on August 7th not the 10th hence why he wears #87 so he doesn't forget it since he was born on that date in 1987.

[doniceage]

Greetings:
IMO Squidney is still a whiny guy who goes to the referees to ask for help in calling penalties if they skate near him or they slam him against the boards. Ovie is a better scorer than Squids he does his scoring in unbelievable ways. Heck even Matthews is better going to the net to score than Squids. It's bad enough that NBCSC doesn't stand for National Broadcast Company Sports Channel its actually Nobody But Crybaby Squidney Channel. He can be sitting on the bench & the announcers will talk about how great he's doing. If he's not on the screen for more than 5 seconds they have to show him even if he's on or off the ice. A player can have a great game with 4 goals against him but he gets 1 point some degree & they break it down more how he got that point compared to guy who got the 4 goals against him. If you don't believe me on this watch any game count how much he is mentioned compared to his opponents & make it a drinking game every mention,showing him,or anything else about him you drink see how drunk you are after the 1st period. Another thing when he won his first cup against Detroit he got clobbered by the Wings in the second period but once he heard that the Penguins won the Cup he mustered his strength to raise it saying I'm not hurt I just wanted to fake my injury so that I could get Wings in trouble cause they couldn't beat me with their players in the penalty box cause I whined good to referees so I can get a ring & not be like waiting like Ray Bourque did late in my career. So is he 1 of the best players in the game no he's not he's just a whiny little guy who still can't grow a playoff beard instead he grows a little pre-teen type mustache & thinks that is version of a playoff beard. @doniceage also his b-day I thought was on August 7th not the 10th hence why he wears #87 so he doesn't forget it since he was born on that date in 1987.

He does not whine like he used to. I will say that for him. He has definitely matured imo.


DON

[Savard18]

Mario Lemieux is still better than Crosby. Remember, every cup Crosby won is directly related to Lemieux - who co-owns the team. If Lemieux and the rest of the ownership group didn't step up to buy the team when they did, I firmly believe there would be no Pittsburgh Penguins. Also, every cup Crosby won has been won by Lemieux as well. Lemieux has 5 cups, Crosby only 3.

1. Wayne Gretzky
2. Gordie Howe
3. Bobby Orr
4. Jaromir Jagr
5. Maurice Richard
6. Martin Brodeur (yes, he's better than Roy in my opinion, for a number of reasons)
7. Ray Bourque
8. Patrick Roy
9. Henri Richard (11 Stanley Cups? Definitely top ten. @ me if you want)
10. Nicklas Lidstrom

Crosby isn't close. I rank Steve Yzerman, Mario Lemieux, Paul Coffey, Jean Beliveau (10 cups as a player and 7 more as an executive!), Mark Messier, and Dominik Hasek (six Vezinas not to mention 2 Hart trophies as a GOALIE?) above him too. Yes, he's been part of three championships. He won the Conn Smythe when he won his last cup but he should not have, sorry. Phil Kessel was a BEAST that year and deserved it more, but Crosby got it for his "leadership". What a crock!! He got it on reputation alone, and that's wrong. Then again, awards are a popularity contest anyway...

I agree with you that Crosby isn't in the top 10, but you're missing Bobby Hull in your top 10.....Also, I would put Stan Mikia ahead of Crosby - Stan's accomplishments are just unprecedented...

I like Crosby, but I think he's MASSIVELY overrated..... Most of those putting him in the top 5 or 10 all time have probably only been watching hockey for a decade, and most of these same fans would put Ovechkin in the top 10 all time as well -- which would be a total joke.... There are some people out there proclaiming Ovechkin to the the GOAT goal scorer, lol,,,,,

As far as Crosby tho - yea, I would put him in the top 25 or perhaps 20 skaters.... I think his last couple of Cups really shot him up the rankings tho... I will say this much - Geno isn't too far off and he's NEVER talked about.

[30ranfordfan]

Mario is Lemieux is probably the most important person in the Penguins' history. I wouldn't argue that. You might also be right: Had he not stepped up, they would have lost their team.

When trying to stack up the careers of the two, I have to ask: So what?

Once Mario Lemieux stopped playing, he stopped doing things that added to his legacy as a player. Had the team been moved to Hamilton... and Crosby won 3 cups there instead, it doesn't change a thing in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong. I am not trying to take a dig at Lemieux, at all. I consider him the best goal scorer I ever saw play... and if you asked me to pick either Lemieux or Crosby - at the height of their game - which one I would take: I would pick Lemieux.

How many seasons would you say "Mario Lemieux was the best player in the league." ?? For me, the answer is 4. He was the best player in 91-92, 92-93, 95-96, 96-97. There's another few years where you could argue it..... but I believe he was truly the best player on the planet on only those 4 occasions.

Crosby, on the other hand, From 2006-07 through 2015-16 (10 years) I would name him the best player in the league. There were two seasons in there that injuries take away from that... so I couldn't call him the best player in the league.... but yeah: Crosby was the best player in the world for 8 different seasons, Lemieux 4. When I'm stacking the two of them up - that's a big part of what I'm taking into consideration.

If I had to run a top 10 off, of the top of my head....

Wayne Gretzky
Bobby Orr
Gordie Howe
Sidney Crosby
Niklas Lidstrom
Maurice Richard
Mario Lemieux
Jaromir Jagr
Martin Brodeur
Larry Robinson

The next 10 would be rounded out by guys like Messier, Hasek, Beliveau, Henri Richard, Bobby Hull, Phil Esposito, Roy, Mike Bossy, and I'm not sure who I'd pick to round it out. Maybe Ovechkin (he'd be the only other post-2005 guy cracking my top 30, I think.... McDavid most likely will eventually, but he's a lot of games away from that).

Crosby, when you look at how long he's been at the top of his game... how he's been able to rack up points in an era where points are not as easy to come by.... he's won 3 cups when teams are not easy to keep together... I think he is right up there with the greatest players in history.

Mario Lemieux is still better than Crosby. Remember, every cup Crosby won is directly related to Lemieux - who co-owns the team. If Lemieux and the rest of the ownership group didn't step up to buy the team when they did, I firmly believe there would be no Pittsburgh Penguins. Also, every cup Crosby won has been won by Lemieux as well. Lemieux has 5 cups, Crosby only 3.

1. Wayne Gretzky
2. Gordie Howe
3. Bobby Orr
4. Jaromir Jagr
5. Maurice Richard
6. Martin Brodeur (yes, he's better than Roy in my opinion, for a number of reasons)
7. Ray Bourque
8. Patrick Roy
9. Henri Richard (11 Stanley Cups? Definitely top ten. @ me if you want)
10. Nicklas Lidstrom

Crosby isn't close. I rank Steve Yzerman, Mario Lemieux, Paul Coffey, Jean Beliveau (10 cups as a player and 7 more as an executive!), Mark Messier, and Dominik Hasek (six Vezinas not to mention 2 Hart trophies as a GOALIE?) above him too. Yes, he's been part of three championships. He won the Conn Smythe when he won his last cup but he should not have, sorry. Phil Kessel was a BEAST that year and deserved it more, but Crosby got it for his "leadership". What a crock!! He got it on reputation alone, and that's wrong. Then again, awards are a popularity contest anyway...

[30ranfordfan]

Makita was a great player, but unprecedented accomplishments? I'm interested in hearing that one... what did he do that was unprecedented? He's in pretty much every "top 25 of all time" list you'll see out there, but rarely do I see him in the top 10s. My opinion on players of that era is limited to what I've read, or clips I've seen. I was born the year Mikita retired (maybe not quite.. he played 17 games in 79-80... I was born in 80).

So I've been watching hockey for about 30 years. The suggestion that most people putting Crosby into "top 10 of all time" lists are newer fans, that don't remember how good older (long retired) players were - I couldn't disagree more. Would younger (newer) fans be more inclined to call him the greatest of all time, or put him right at the top (or at least near the top) of a list? Probably.... but it doesn't take long to find many article written buy hockey journalists that have been covering the game for decades, calling Crosby a top 10 (or top 5) player of all time.

I can reverse the argument too. Most people refuse to admit how freakin good this guy has been... they're usually 50+, and believe the hockey played in the 1970s was the best hockey ever.

I agree with you that Crosby isn't in the top 10, but you're missing Bobby Hull in your top 10.....Also, I would put Stan Mikia ahead of Crosby - Stan's accomplishments are just unprecedented...

I like Crosby, but I think he's MASSIVELY overrated..... Most of those putting him in the top 5 or 10 all time have probably only been watching hockey for a decade, and most of these same fans would put Ovechkin in the top 10 all time as well -- which would be a total joke.... There are some people out there proclaiming Ovechkin to the the GOAT goal scorer, lol,,,,,

As far as Crosby tho - yea, I would put him in the top 25 or perhaps 20 skaters.... I think his last couple of Cups really shot him up the rankings tho... I will say this much - Geno isn't too far off and he's NEVER talked about.