What are your pet peeves in the hobby

[canucksfan007]

My peeves.

1) My LCS. His prices are absolutely ridiculous. I’m not even exaggerating, but his prices are almost double what you would pay for anywhere else. $200 for 17-18 series 2 hobby box as an example. This is why I go online or wait until we drive 1.5 hours away to the next closest shop.

2) Using EBay as a price point. That’s a poor way to do it since it doesn’t have all the info. Example, a Tarasenko fan is looking for his young gun and would have no problem paying $100 or more for it, but he doesn’t go on eBay for a week. In that time, 5 sell between the prices of $35 and $70. He goes on the next week and buys one at a buy it now price of $105. There are too many variables and inconsistencies with following ebay prices. Trading would be a lot better if everyone went by BV. If you want my card, great, but don’t try to low ball me because it sold for half the price last week on eBay. GTFO. Go buy it on eBay then.

3) Not updating my lists properly and buying/trading for multiples of the same card.

those are mine.

Unfortunately, there are not going to be many people who side with you on #2. Why are we letting a 3rd party tell us what out cards are worth? Sure, they were relevant before the internet came along .... when there were not as many sets around .... when they could actually have enough man power to keep up to date with what was going on in the hobby.

People did trust Beckett, people did use the guide ..... this was before Beckett showed they were incapable of keeping up with current card values. The continually put out wrongful information, im not sure how anyone can even look at a price guide.

Beckett is not $$$, it is simply a unit used by a "professional card magazine" to do their best to keep up with the current market.


Your point about the Tarasenko YG is perfect. No, a Tarasenko fan looking to buy a YG is not going to pay $100 for the card because he simply wants it. Like any consumer should, they should do their research and shop around. Now, on the other hand, maybe a collectors mom, or aunt ..... looking to buy someone a gift, might just buy the 1st one they see ..... but no one in the hobby is going to pay $100 for a Tarasenko YG. Its actually very simple with most cards. Look at completed listings, take various factors into consideration ( when the auction ends, if its a US or CDN seller, etc ) ...... add up all the completed sales you see ..... take away that crazy sale that went for the $15 steal, and the one where the poor mom or aunt BINed for $100 ... and you are going to get a solid average of what that card is worth ..... you can even look up to 3 months in the past and get a quarterly value on the Tarasenko YG if you want to be sure.

[Therealmahoney]

Unfortunately, there are not going to be many people who side with you on #2. Why are we letting a 3rd party tell us what out cards are worth? Sure, they were relevant before the internet came along .... when there were not as many sets around .... when they could actually have enough man power to keep up to date with what was going on in the hobby.

People did trust Beckett, people did use the guide ..... this was before Beckett showed they were incapable of keeping up with current card values. The continually put out wrongful information, im not sure how anyone can even look at a price guide.

Beckett is not $$$, it is simply a unit used by a "professional card magazine" to do their best to keep up with the current market.


Your point about the Tarasenko YG is perfect. No, a Tarasenko fan looking to buy a YG is not going to pay $100 for the card because he simply wants it. Like any consumer should, they should do their research and shop around. Now, on the other hand, maybe a collectors mom, or aunt ..... looking to buy someone a gift, might just buy the 1st one they see ..... but no one in the hobby is going to pay $100 for a Tarasenko YG. Its actually very simple with most cards. Look at completed listings, take various factors into consideration ( when the auction ends, if its a US or CDN seller, etc ) ...... add up all the completed sales you see ..... take away that crazy sale that went for the $15 steal, and the one where the poor mom or aunt BINed for $100 ... and you are going to get a solid average of what that card is worth ..... you can even look up to 3 months in the past and get a quarterly value on the Tarasenko YG if you want to be sure.

i think more people will side with me on this one. I may be new here, but I’ve only ran into 2 people out of the 40-50 that don’t go by BV. It makes it a lot easier which is why I am a fan of this site. What you’re talking about is just shopping around, and eBay traders can low-ball each other which if that works for you is fine. But trading by bv is the better practice IMO because it’s quicker, more efficient, and more people do it which gives you a wider range of merch to deal with

[Maggot]

i think more people will side with me on this one. I may be new here, but I’ve only ran into 2 people out of the 40-50 that don’t go by BV. It makes it a lot easier which is why I am a fan of this site. What you’re talking about is just shopping around, and eBay traders can low-ball each other which if that works for you is fine. But trading by bv is the better practice IMO because it’s quicker, more efficient, and more people do it which gives you a wider range of merch to deal with

Beckett is utterly worthless and I refuse to pay for a subscription. Judging from past threads, it's about 50/50 on people that appreciate BV, but most will agree to trade by it just for trading's sake (myself included).
I've created a couple of threads over the years pointing out some of the most egregious errors, including the infamous $25 Spezza inserts, but you need look no further than the Semi/Unlisted Stars section.

The unlisted stars section includes some of the hobby's most collected players:
Lidstrom, Messier, Sakic etc
But it also contains these folks - please explain?
Kyle Baun, Eric Comrie, Cody Hodgson, Evander Kane, Joffrey Lupul, Joni Ortio, Nick Shore, Drew Stafford, Nail Yakupov

WTH is that? How out of touch with the hobby, and with hockey in general, can you be?

[Therealmahoney]

Beckett is utterly worthless and I refuse to pay for a subscription. Judging from past threads, it's about 50/50 on people that appreciate BV, but most will agree to trade by it just for trading's sake (myself included).
I've created a couple of threads over the years pointing out some of the most egregious errors, including the infamous $25 Spezza inserts, but you need look no further than the Semi/Unlisted Stars section.

The unlisted stars section includes some of the hobby's most collected players:
Lidstrom, Messier, Sakic etc
But it also contains these folks - please explain?
Kyle Baun, Eric Comrie, Cody Hodgson, Evander Kane, Joffrey Lupul, Joni Ortio, Nick Shore, Drew Stafford, Nail Yakupov

WTH is that? How out of touch with the hobby, and with hockey in general, can you be?

i should point out, like you said, that I don’t really agree with the prices that Beckett has on most of the cards, but for trading sake I think it’s the easiest and least bias way to go. I’ve sold on eBay for a long time, and you will very rarely get what you’re expecting for a card. In saying that, I have posted some cards well below their bv just to move them and get them out of my collection, but they never sell. I have been able to use those same cards in trades, at their full bv. It’s all about individual value. Just because I do t value those cards, doesn’t mean someone else doesn’t.

so yes, Beckett is not the bible, and they are wrong more than they are right, but for trading sake it is the most efficient way to go because it takes the guess work out and lets us get on with our trading.

[Stryfex]

Oh man I have about a billion pet peeves in this hobby - this is one of those hobbies that requires alot of love to participate (which is why so few people do...which is a good lead into a few...)

1. The fact that there are soooooooo few collectors out there now. The amount of hands exchanging cards/money is so small and that has a ton of side-effects, it's just disheartening to know that a card that's numbered to like 299 will probably only have like 30 people that actually want to collect it.

2. The absolutely insane cost of wax - pretty much across the board. $100 in real-life where we all exist is a significant amount of money that is generally not thrown around lightly - yet in this hobby $100 is like couch pennies. Single cards are very affordable in most cases but who doesn't love buying boxes to rip packs and maybe try and build a set? It's about fun not value!! Something like the Canadian Tire set recently to me is a good example of a properly priced product - $100 CDN for a 48-pack box (8 cards per pack) where everything was of very high quality, few defects, nice set configuration - lower end for sure but it's just an example of something priced properly

3. The absence of set-builders. In a hits-only-matter world like 97% of all cards printed are only sought after by a tiny fraction of an already tiny community - it's so frustrating to have a giant pile of inserts and parallels and rookies that nobody wants anything to do with (despite the fact that they each cost like $5-10 to acquire from a pack)

4. Saturation - Something can't be valuable if it's common. There should be more restraint by the manufacturers. There's no reason for the existence of manufactured patches especially but even event-worn jersey cards. Jersey cards should all be game-worn and they should be somewhat rare - to create excitement for acquiring them. Getting cool auto cards and hot things should be a gamble and not just a matter of spending enough money - I have always and will always disagree with the existence of hit-only products. Sports cards should involve a bit of a journey - opening the packs "seeing what you can get" kind of thing - just saying "spend the money, get your hits" takes so much flavor from the experience and add to that the fact that over half of all products are hit-only, ugh, it's the downfall man i'm telling you

5. Lack of randomization - this one I totally understand the idea that people don't want to burn their money on a box and get less - but I think that all the products adhering super strictly to a "box configuration" takes so much fun and excitement out of opening packs. WHy does series 1 (as an example) have to have EXACTLY 6 young guns and EXACTLY 4 portraits and EXACTLY 4 canvas cards, etc. Set a minimum of like 4 and allow some boxes to have 4 while other boxes can have 10 or more - bring back the "open the pack and never know what might be in it" feeling!!!!!!!!

[cygnusx1]

I'd say my number one issue would be that I used to enjoy the hobby, but now I don't. I think I've bought 5 cards in the past year, when normally I'd be buying 15-20 cards a day. As many have said, there's a variety of factors driving people away, but the hobby (hockey especially) just isn't very fun anymore.

[30ranfordfan]

There really isn't a whole lot that bothers me that much..... but I've got a few:

1. The endless amount of time that's wasted in trying to determine if "eBay" or "BV" is the way to go

Anyone who says "I only trade based on BV" or "I only trade based on eBay value" needs to loosen up. Neither of them are a terrible place to pull values for a trade from, but to insist that you only use one and not the other - you're doing yourself, and any perspective trade partner a disservice.

Most of my transactions with other members end up being buys & sell type deals, not trades - because I don't keep much in the way of traders anymore. I can recall a fairly recent trade.. where it was cards for cards... and I can tell you right now: Not once did I look at eBay or Beckett for values. I'm sure I "lost" on the BV aspect of the deal. eBay prices? I bet it was closer... but still not in my favor. I traded away a few cards I didn't care to own, and got back cards I wanted to own. If I was out $10 in BV or $5 in SV - To be totally honest: I couldn't care less. I know I was happy to make the trade, it was initiated because the other member had a card I wanted, and I found enough stuff he was interested in to make a swap work. He was doing me a favour... and I hope he was as happy with the deal as I was.

The worst part of the BV argument has always been that 95% of people who preach about BVs, is that they don't actually know how to read a Beckett correctly (or simply refuse to). Beckett does not publish a price for a card. Ever. There is NO SUCH THING as a card with a $50 BV. Beckett publishes HIGH & LOW value columns, and suggest that as a range for the value. What makes the endless debate worse is that Beckett, with new stuff, really isn't all that bad in pricing. If you consider the range they publish - they're pretty accurate. I think most people have figured out by now that they use a formula to set prices, not actual market data, but their formula is pretty good - if you consider the whole range.

So, I think there is nothing wrong with looking at BVs and using that as a starting point in a trade.... so long as both people will admit that a card with a LOW value of $25, and a HIGH value of $50.... maybe not actually be a fair swap for another card with an identical range. If your card will routinely sell for $50 (the high range) why on earth would you trade it for my card that sells for only $25 (the low range) despite the "book values" being equal? Just sell yours, and buy mine (or another copy). You'd be coming out way ahead.

Last time I checked, beckett was also awful for updating their prices. It's been years since I looked at one though, so maybe they've finally fixed the old prices for all things 90s & 00s ?


2. The release calendar. I don't mind products coming out over the summer, but I hope the PA (in the next agreement) demands that cards for a particular season need to be released prior to the next season's cards. You can't release anything with 2018-19 on it, until all of the 2017-18 is out. I realize a big part of this is that UD doesn't want to litter their biggest sets with redemptions, and I get that. Part of this is on players for doing what they've agreed to do (and the PA should be prodding them to do it quicker) but a big part of this is on UD too. If they were already constructing cards for 18-19 The Cup RIGHT NOW, it wouldn't be such a mad dash next summer to get the cards finished in time for November..... but which how that release schedule is changing.... I'm guessing by the time 2020-21 The Cup is released, it'll be in January of 2022, with a full half dozen (or more) 21-22 sets already out.

3. Lack of imagination. The checklists are stale, IMO. There isn't a lot of variety that goes into any NHL releases anymore. It's the same 100 players in every set, and there's a pretty limited pool of retired guys that get used. To some degree I understand this - how many collectors really want to pull a card of Connor Carrick? I'm guessing even his mother would rather pull an Auston Matthews :) While the top 30 (or so) guys in the league should be in every set.... I just can't believe that if Nazim Kadri, or Leon Draisaitl, were skipped over in a couple of releases this year - anyone would care. Obviously those guys should be getting new cards every year, but do they really need to be in EVERY set? Considering the amount of retired players that are used each year by UD - When was the last time UD included someone new? I mean someone from the 90s (or older) that hasn't been in a UD set since they retired..... when was the last time a player like that was on a checklist?

4. Too much rookie stuff. When a rookie like McDavid or Matthews comes along - sure, they stick them in everything... because those guys are now the biggest hits. There are very few guys like that, ever. Most of the rookie related memorabilia sets out there are garbage.... which is why most of them end up in $2 bins as soon as they're pulled from boxes. Even the autographs are over done (and I LOVE rookie autos). A quick check... and I see the numbered of numbered autograph cards for Kailer Yammamoto last season adds up to 3,736. That doesn't include the unnumbered Artifacts, OPC Platinum, and a few (unnumbered) cards from PRemier, SP Authentic, and Ultimate Collection. It also doesn't include whatever he's signed for The Cup. I'm guessing that means there's a total around 5k SIGNED cards, for a guy that played all of 9 games last year. Is that really necessary? Cut that in half, and there might actually be some sustainability to the value of his signatures.

Of course scaling back on the over use of rookies would mean needs to pay vets for their signatures (or a drop in the overall autograph content) and that would cost more to make.

5. Unannounced cards. If the print runs need to stay secret, fine.... but I have never liked the idea of "Easter eggs". If I was collecting a particular player, and I had no idea that I should be looking for a super short printed card... until a couple of copies had already been snapped up by collectors... I'd be fuming.



Probably a few other things, but that's all I got right now.

[Therealmahoney]

There really isn't a whole lot that bothers me that much..... but I've got a few:

1. The endless amount of time that's wasted in trying to determine if "eBay" or "BV" is the way to go

Anyone who says "I only trade based on BV" or "I only trade based on eBay value" needs to loosen up. Neither of them are a terrible place to pull values for a trade from, but to insist that you only use one and not the other - you're doing yourself, and any perspective trade partner a disservice.

Most of my transactions with other members end up being buys & sell type deals, not trades - because I don't keep much in the way of traders anymore. I can recall a fairly recent trade.. where it was cards for cards... and I can tell you right now: Not once did I look at eBay or Beckett for values. I'm sure I "lost" on the BV aspect of the deal. eBay prices? I bet it was closer... but still not in my favor. I traded away a few cards I didn't care to own, and got back cards I wanted to own. If I was out $10 in BV or $5 in SV - To be totally honest: I couldn't care less. I know I was happy to make the trade, it was initiated because the other member had a card I wanted, and I found enough stuff he was interested in to make a swap work. He was doing me a favour... and I hope he was as happy with the deal as I was.

The worst part of the BV argument has always been that 95% of people who preach about BVs, is that they don't actually know how to read a Beckett correctly (or simply refuse to). Beckett does not publish a price for a card. Ever. There is NO SUCH THING as a card with a $50 BV. Beckett publishes HIGH & LOW value columns, and suggest that as a range for the value. What makes the endless debate worse is that Beckett, with new stuff, really isn't all that bad in pricing. If you consider the range they publish - they're pretty accurate. I think most people have figured out by now that they use a formula to set prices, not actual market data, but their formula is pretty good - if you consider the whole range.

So, I think there is nothing wrong with looking at BVs and using that as a starting point in a trade.... so long as both people will admit that a card with a LOW value of $25, and a HIGH value of $50.... maybe not actually be a fair swap for another card with an identical range. If your card will routinely sell for $50 (the high range) why on earth would you trade it for my card that sells for only $25 (the low range) despite the "book values" being equal? Just sell yours, and buy mine (or another copy). You'd be coming out way ahead.

Last time I checked, beckett was also awful for updating their prices. It's been years since I looked at one though, so maybe they've finally fixed the old prices for all things 90s & 00s ?


2. The release calendar. I don't mind products coming out over the summer, but I hope the PA (in the next agreement) demands that cards for a particular season need to be released prior to the next season's cards. You can't release anything with 2018-19 on it, until all of the 2017-18 is out. I realize a big part of this is that UD doesn't want to litter their biggest sets with redemptions, and I get that. Part of this is on players for doing what they've agreed to do (and the PA should be prodding them to do it quicker) but a big part of this is on UD too. If they were already constructing cards for 18-19 The Cup RIGHT NOW, it wouldn't be such a mad dash next summer to get the cards finished in time for November..... but which how that release schedule is changing.... I'm guessing by the time 2020-21 The Cup is released, it'll be in January of 2022, with a full half dozen (or more) 21-22 sets already out.

3. Lack of imagination. The checklists are stale, IMO. There isn't a lot of variety that goes into any NHL releases anymore. It's the same 100 players in every set, and there's a pretty limited pool of retired guys that get used. To some degree I understand this - how many collectors really want to pull a card of Connor Carrick? I'm guessing even his mother would rather pull an Auston Matthews :) While the top 30 (or so) guys in the league should be in every set.... I just can't believe that if Nazim Kadri, or Leon Draisaitl, were skipped over in a couple of releases this year - anyone would care. Obviously those guys should be getting new cards every year, but do they really need to be in EVERY set? Considering the amount of retired players that are used each year by UD - When was the last time UD included someone new? I mean someone from the 90s (or older) that hasn't been in a UD set since they retired..... when was the last time a player like that was on a checklist?

4. Too much rookie stuff. When a rookie like McDavid or Matthews comes along - sure, they stick them in everything... because those guys are now the biggest hits. There are very few guys like that, ever. Most of the rookie related memorabilia sets out there are garbage.... which is why most of them end up in $2 bins as soon as they're pulled from boxes. Even the autographs are over done (and I LOVE rookie autos). A quick check... and I see the numbered of numbered autograph cards for Kailer Yammamoto last season adds up to 3,736. That doesn't include the unnumbered Artifacts, OPC Platinum, and a few (unnumbered) cards from PRemier, SP Authentic, and Ultimate Collection. It also doesn't include whatever he's signed for The Cup. I'm guessing that means there's a total around 5k SIGNED cards, for a guy that played all of 9 games last year. Is that really necessary? Cut that in half, and there might actually be some sustainability to the value of his signatures.

Of course scaling back on the over use of rookies would mean needs to pay vets for their signatures (or a drop in the overall autograph content) and that would cost more to make.

5. Unannounced cards. If the print runs need to stay secret, fine.... but I have never liked the idea of "Easter eggs". If I was collecting a particular player, and I had no idea that I should be looking for a super short printed card... until a couple of copies had already been snapped up by collectors... I'd be fuming.



Probably a few other things, but that's all I got right now.

I agree with you that BV is a good starting point, but should not have to be the end point. For inserts it works great as they are only a couple of bucks, and in most cases both traders are doing each other a favour. In that way, equal value can work out great. I am currently right now working on a deal, and have been working on a deal for some time, where I will get a card that I really want, but will be giving up probably double bv just because I really want it. And it isn’t with no name players, it’s with a Larkin RPA + a mackinnon Rookie Patch /10 going the other way for a card of less value.

i am doing it because I really want that card.

buy and sell may not work for everyone because of financial restraints, which is why respect and integrity among traders is so paramount

[Therealmahoney]

I have to say, I love this thread. Open dialogue is great and I love seeing other people’s points of view

[sparty07]

Leafsfan, if you aren't allowed to move money in/out of your account, why would that preclude you from using Paypal? Yes you would have to seed your account with some sales prior to being able to purchase anything, but once you get money into Paypal you don't have to move it to a bank account. This is the way I handle my card budget. Anything in Paypal is mine to use and I don't spend cash/cards to purchase anything (in general).

I don't use BV unless the other person insists due to the fact that my monthly hockey card budget is fairly small compared to many in the hobby, and spending $10/month of that budget restricts me too much. I do like 30ranfordfan's methodology of "does this seem fair and make both sides happy". I completed a trade Sunday (holding until the CP issue is resolved) for 2 PC autographs for a dozen or so random young guns who I have $0 true value to me for, but helps him complete his set. He did the BV math and while he was fine with the $8 value I offered more because I felt I was getting the better end of the deal anyways.