Noob Question. Dont be mad, lol.

[Rachel]

Okay, so let me start by saying I have virtually no clue about anything. Im a complete neophyte, and Im stupid too. As a result, Im having trouble understanding something and I guess I need to ask.

Its about BV. Book value. It seems to be a touchy subject with some people, and I dont know why. Let me explain what I see, and then hopefully someone can tell me why my perception is flawed or whatever. As only an occasional trader/hobbyist looking in from the outside, I see this:

Sportscards, like anything else, have a value. That value, like everything else, is determined by supply and demand. Something, anything really, is worth exactly what someone will pay for it. No more, no less. Thats just the way the world works, no? Yet, in trading sportscards, especially over the internet, it seems some people wish to use this thing called BV to estimate the value of their cards.

What puzzles me is that there is a company out there that pre-dates the internet and the explosion of trading happening within it, and that company publishes a thing called BV. What that seems to be to me is a completely fabricated number that has absolutely no link to reality, no corroboration, and in fact isn't even close to the real number. Moreover, pretty much everyone seems to agree! We all know Beckett makes up numbers out of thin air. Nobody argues that. We also all know that those numbers are 5 times, 10 times, sometimes 20 times actual auction sales of the item. Not even close and nobody argues that.

So, why does anybody refer to that made-up number anymore? This is the 21st century. In 5 seconds I can tell you exactly how much the last 20 sales of that item were at auction. What is the purpose of using a different number that is universally understood to be WAYYYYY off?

Perhaps more importantly, why do people get upset when I ask about that? Why do people get upset when I tell them that made up numbers arent important to me? Am I misunderstanding something here?

Somebody please take a minute to explain this to me please. Im not trying to offend anyone. I truly dont understand.

Thanks

[baystate123]

I don’t think this topic can be answered or figured out with 1 answer. There are too many layers/variables. It can be viewed in so many circumstances or situations.
In my experience when simply selling a card outright, BV is worthless. It can be worth 10 cents or $1000 in that book, doesn’t matter. If the last 10 sales online average $15 then the card is worth $15. Most of the time, difficulties arise when trading. Each card may book for equal values. However, 1 may sell for 1/2 as much. Well in my mind it’s not a fair trade. Personally, I never understood why people even ask “Do you want to use BV or selling prices.” I guarantee if I say BV and your card is selling for twice what mine is, you’re going to have a problem with my answer. We all know that the current sale prices is driving the deal. So let’s not even question it.
With that said, the only time I can see going strictly by BV is with extremely rare 1/1’s, low sale volume situations etc. Cards with no real sales to compare to.

[Rachel]

Thanks for the answer. Everything you said made sense and what Im taking from it is that BV is more for equalizing trades and less for buying or selling. That makes sense, but it required the caveat you added, that people still care about the selling price too, lol...which rolls us back to the original question. If actual sale price matters and we all know BV isnt even a real starting place for negotiations, what's it for?

To be honest, I thought BV was just for insurance amounts during shipping, lol.

I would also add that I thought some cards didnt have book value at all, lol. I happen to have a 1/1 with no BV...or maybe Im just an idiot and looked in the wrong place lol.

[Spiderpool]

I have found that it is mostly the older (hockey/sports) collectors who have been around for a long time who are the ones keeping "BV" alive. Younger collectors may not even know what BV or Beckett is, and those in the mid-age range may or may not put too much stock in BV. Me, I couldn't care any less about Beckett one way or the other.

Similar to how old collectors still refer to PLASTIC packages of trading cards as WAX. Yet there is no wax...

My dad still doesn't know how to use email.

It will be a very different world when the baby boomers die off. They have already started.

[Spiderpool]

Since the other thread was moved to VIP status, I will post my reply here since I KNOW you are watching.

Do you like it when I capitalize certain words? Does that make me a troll too? What about when I capitalize and BOLD them?

You are right! You haventbeen name calling, just accusing people of being a liar.

Nope! You are WRONG! I have not called anybody a liar. This is fact. Please quote for me where I used the word "liar". Because I have not!

Just because I do not believe someone, does not make them a liar. Just because I think someone is making ridiculous statements, does not make them a liar. My G-Ma repeatedly tells me cool stories bro, but they are just ridiculous stories because she has Alzheimer's. She is not a liar when she tells me the sky is purple. She really thinks it is! That does not make her a liar, but her statement is still very very ridiculous. One day she knows who I am, the next day she doesn't.

In addition, more accurate to this forum (collecting), there are people with "mental issues" such as for example psychopathy who may actually see things that aren't there and believe things that aren't true. These people could very well make ridiculous statements and not be liars as they may actually believe what they are doing or saying.

My experience in trading card collecting is that the hobby in general has a higher percentage than average of narcissists, psychopaths, sociopaths, OCD, etc etc. I may even have one or more of the aforementioned as I do not feel feelings. Thus it is impossible for me to get all "huffy" like others in this thread.

When you have a dead body in the trunk of your car, and you get pulled over by the cops, are you sweating bullets and nervous, or are you like me and you are all smiles and calm and cool and you don't care one way or the other if they find the body? Because it is sheer comedy when you guys tell me I am getting huffy when it is impossible for me to do so. What does "huffy" even mean? Isn't that a BMX bicycle?

Which, in turn is in factbeing hateful (first definition of a troll).

I am not hateful! I cannot be hateful! I do not feel feelings, it is impossible for me to do so. So, based on your definition "being hateful" "first definition of a troll", I can therefore not be a troll. I am all smiles buddy. Now I am kind of bummed. Can I still be a troll if a am happy? Pretty pretty please?

Like I said, yourcomparisons were a bit irrelevant but FAIR. Funny you didnt quote that part.

I DID!

You are looking to proveyour point to the point of arguing with anyone that will fall into it.

I am curious if you even know what my point was supposed to be? I will tell you. My point was that: THE CARD IN QUESTION WAS NOT WORTH $600. That is it case closed.

A 5 cent candy is not worth 4 million dollars. But I know you, MFW, and Rachel will think otherwise, even if it has a 5 cent price tag on it!

[TribeBuckeyeFan]

I'm one of those apparently "older" collector's that still prefer to use BV, especially when trading something. I have in my possession a card that has a BV of $250. Another user on this board contacted me about trading for it, then complained that I was in the wrong when I told him what I wanted from his inventory (that total came out to $240 BV). His rationale was my card was only selling for $80-100 on ebay, and what I wanted are selling for more than that. I said but the cards I'm wanting are for me, not for resale. To me, that argument makes no sense whatsoever (convince me I'm wrong, cuz he couldn't do it). I'm not selling those other cards. They are going into my personal collection so what they are selling for is irrelevant.

Additionally, Beckett has and still does does indicate that it is a "guide". It is not a bible that indicates "this is what cards must sell for". A cards sell value is whatever someone is willing to pay for it. I saw someone selling a card on twitter the other day that I wanted. Naturally, I looked it up on Beckett; high value was $20. It was being offered for sale at $30 plus shipping. Not gonna happen, not for me anyway. Beckett is just like Kelly Blue-Book. If you're car has a trade in value of $10,000, and a dealer offers you $5,000, are you going to do that deal? Certainly not, or at least I would hope that you wouldn't. To alleviate this, and I've been saying for as long as I can remember, Beckett should do away with high/low values, and convert to a sell/trade value. I think that would clear things up tremendously. High would now be trade, low would now be sell. The $250 card I spoke was easily selling for $200-300 when it first came out, and it has indeed dropped on the seller's market. Beckett has it for $100/$250 - sell/trade. Easy peasy.