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  1. #11
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    Indeed, he really should have pulled a Peter Bondra, came back an played for one more year or two just to get those 27 goals just to get to 500.... I remember he came out of retirement and signed with the Hawks in like December of 2006 just so he could get to that 500 goal mark...

    Funny enough, I think Roenick belongs in the HOF as well, and I think he really only played an extra 2 years just so he could get to that 500 plateau, thinking it would help his chances of getting into the Hall..... But I suppose these days 500 goals doesn't guarantee you a spot in the HOF.... I think it really should .... Think about how tough it is to score 500 goals. You have to be a very good or great player for a very long time - at least 15 seasons of 35+ goals a season, not an easy feat considering you need to stay healthy enough every season to pot 35+ goals a season...

    It's almost like the committee weighs how popular you were with/against your statistics and that is how they determine if you're worthy for the Hall...

    JR, in my mind, is HOFer too.

    You suggested "it's becoming the hall of very good" in an earlier post. I don't think it's becoming that, it *IS* that and has been for quite some time.

    For me: A HOFer should be a player that people who watched the game, during that player's era, will immediately remember as someone who dominated. They need to have stats to back that up - but if injuries cut a career short, those stats don't need to be as impressive.

    Gritty two-way players, who had the magic leadership sauce, and won Stanley Cup(s): Not HOFers if I had a vote, but what can you do?

    The career stats, I think at one time if you had 1,000 pts, 500 goals, or 300 wins (for a goalie) it was a lock - but the hall has backed away from that over the last decade+. Some of that (for the points) is that the 80s and early 90s allowed guys to rack them up. You think 1,000 points should get you into the Hall..... and then suddenly you realize "How many points did Brian Propp get?"

    500 goals, IMO, is even more impressive than 1,000 points. Here's the 500 goal scorers that are NOT in the HOF:

    Jagr, Ovechkin, Iginla, Marleau, Hossa, Verbeek, Turgeon, Roenick.

    OV & Marleau still playing, of course. They'll both get there. Jagr & Iginla are locks - just hasn't been enough time yet.

    Hossa? HOFer IMO. Not eligible yet. Probably not a lock though.

    The other three? They should have been there long ago, and certainly before Guy Carbonneau.


    It's funny though. Looking at the list of top goal scorers.... Mogilny, as mentioned, didn't miss 500 by much. 473. There are two other guys ahead of him, but below 500, and not in the HOF: Bernie NIchols (475) & Brian Bellows (485). I bring this up because perception is everything..... Nichols is another guy, that IMO, continuity gets snubbed. I always thought of him as a future HOFer when he played in the 90s. 1200+ points, nearly 500 goals, while racking up over 1200 PIMs. Brian Bellows? Never occurred to me that he had that many goals. Always came off as being a "good" player, but never a "great" one, from my recollection. If I was making a list of the top 25 HOF snubs, his name wouldn't have even crossed my mind.

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  2. #12
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    @30ranfordfan

    Might want to change the wins to 400. As you know Osgood has 400 wins and never got the locked for induction. With other better goalies out there not in the hall of fame and quite a few coming down the pipeline there will be a backlog with henrik, M.A.F., and perhaps Miller if he can squeak in there. As it only will get worse as a goalie only get in every 4 years or so. Vachon, was not even a current goalie so that complicate it further for the guys above if another old time goalie get inducted.

    Don

    Don

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  3. #13
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    @30ranfordfan

    Might want to change the wins to 400. As you know Osgood has 400 wins and never got the locked for induction. With other better goalies out there not in the hall of fame and quite a few coming down the pipeline there will be a backlog with henrik, M.A.F., and perhaps Miller if he can squeak in there. As it only will get worse as a goalie only get in every 4 years or so. Vachon, was not even a current goalie so that complicate it further for the guys above if another old time goalie get inducted.

    Don

    Don

    It's funny.

    I think most people agree that the HOF's standards, in general, have gotten pretty lax. There's more than enough "border line" guys in, that show you it could be described as the "hall of very good" rather than great.

    For goalies? They're still incredibly tough.

    Jaques Plante was inducted in 1978. Since then, only 14 other goalies have gotten in:

    1980: Harry Lumley
    1980: Lorne "Gump" Worsley
    1983: Ken Dryden
    1984: Bernard Marcel Parent
    1985: Gerald Michael "Gerry" Cheevers
    1987: Edward "Eddie" Giacomin
    1988: Anthony James "Tony" Esposito
    1989: Vladislav Tretiak
    1993: William John "Billy" Smith
    2003: Grant Fuhr
    2006: Patrick Roy
    2011: Ed Belfour
    2014: Dominik Hasek
    2016: Rogatien "Rogie" Vachon

    Most of those guys, I'm pretty familiar with. Lumley & Giacomin I know the names & accomplishments, not really sure "how great" they would have been, but obviously the hall believes them to be great, so I'll buy it.

    Off the top of my head, Cujo, Osgood, Vernon, and Moog are the four "biggest snubs" when you look at lists. Is Beezer's resume really that much less deserving than Giacomin's? (I don't see why, in the stats). Khabibulin's ? Richter's ? I mean, that's 7 guys I just named off that I could argue had bigger careers than Giacomin did... and I'd say the same about Lumley & Vachon.

    The active guys, the list is really good too. MAF & Lundqvist are already well above 400. Miller has a good shot to get there. Same with Rinne. Cam Ward probably won't reach 400, but he's already over 300 & has a Stanley Cup. If Price ends up a top-5 all-time win goalie, but no championship, does he get in too?

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  4. #14
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    @30ranfordfan

    Why I thought you might want to change 300 to 400 in your post.

    I just was taking the post in a goalie direction as only 1 goalie get nominated every few years. Your post just highlights the problem again for any goalie from here on out. it will be 25 years or so before all 400 win goalies are in the hall.

    Don

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    is it possible Beezers gets snubbed for those racist comments he made a few years back?

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    is it possible Beezers gets snubbed for those racist comments he made a few years back?

    I hate to say this but time tends to heal most wounds and people forget over time what is said (or become numb)... but when the wound is re-opened then people reflect on this. Is this the reason for Beezer? Not sure, but it probably does not help.

    Though I have a discussion topic that I'll post up in a bit....

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