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  1. #71
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    Alan Trammell
    I hate to vote him off since I've lobbied for his induction for years (Lou Whitaker too; still waiting on him), but I'm just glad he wasn't the first shortstop to be removed. I always felt Trammell should be in because while he wasn't ever a league leader in any category, or a serious MVP candidate outside of 1987, and only once got above the 40% voting threshold, Trammell came up in an era where the shortstop was a small, fast all-glove no-bat guy. There aren't many players with four Gold Gloves at shortstop while also having a .330/25/100 season to their credit. He was the link from the all-glove, no-bat shortstops of the 60s through 80s to the Ripkens, A-Rods, Nomars, Jeters, Machados, and Lindors of the 90s and 00s. But if I voted Ray Schalk out for a lack of elite numbers despite being a positional transformer, I have to do it with Trammell too.

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  2. #72




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    My "elimination" for today is third baseman Frank " Home Run" Baker. His 'statistics" are 'above average", but not exceptional. The only thing that jumped at me, that I thought was very impressive, was getting 19 triples in one season. Man that is a GREAT 'stat'. That is more impressive,to me, that any other hitting "stat". I can't even think if anyone has even come close to that. However, everything else is basically just "above average" - BA-.307, RUNS-887, HITS-1838, less than 100 HR's, SB-235, & RBI-1,103. Also, he didn't get in the HOF until 1955, the 20th year of selection (1st was 1936). So, if he was to go into the HOF, why in the world did it take the 20th group when he'd been eligible since 1936 (the year of group #1)?

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    Last edited by OriolesFan; 08-22-2019 at 10:43 AM.

  3. #73





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    My "elimination" for today is third baseman Frank " Home Run" Baker. His 'statistics" are 'above average", but not exceptional. The only thing that jumped at me, that I thought was very impressive, was getting 19 triples in one season. Man that is a GREAT 'stat'. That is more impressive,to me, that any other hitting "stat". I can't even think if anyone has even come close to that. However, everything else is basically just "above average" - BA-.307, RUNS-887, HITS-1838, less than 100 HR's, SB-235, & RBI-1,103. Also, he didn't get in the HOF until 1955, the 20th year of selection (1st was 1936). So, if he was to go into the HOF, why in the world did it take the 20th group when he'd been eligible since 1936 (the year of group #1)?

    There weren't 20 Hall of Fame classes between between 1936 and 1955. There were only 6 elections between 1936 and 1955 (1938, 1944, 1945, 1946, 1949, 1963) by the BBWAA. The Veteran's Committee had 3 classes in that that time period but none of them were focused on players from Baker's era. I'm actually in agreement with you on Baker but for the older players you have to remember that they didn't get elected under the modern setup.


    My choice for today: Andre Dawson

    The Hawk (definitely a Hall of Fame nickname) really only had 4 exceptional years. He had a couple of good years and then a whole bunch of league average years.He did win a deserved Rookie of the Year and an undeserved MVP (20th in fWAR that year in the NL) but overall he just didn't have a strong enough career to warrant election to the Hall of Fame for me.

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    Last edited by WizardofOz1982; 08-22-2019 at 06:17 PM. Reason: Adding my choice
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  4. #74







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    Whitey Herzog MGR

    Bill James had a good article a few years ago (so some of the newer HOF managers were missing from it) that basically had Herzog as one of the worst HOF managers. The ones rated below him have already been removed and he doesn't have the best managerial stats so I'll remove him for today. He just isn't a must have manager in the HOF and I already value players over managers and coaches anyway so it is time to remove another manager IMO.

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  5. #75
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    Pie Traynor
    Why pies need training, I'll never know...

    Home Run Baker, by every metric, was better than Traynor (except possibly defensively) once one takes into account that Baker's numbers were in the dead ball era versus Traynor's post-World War career. So if Baker just got voted out, Traynor has to follow.

    JAWS ranks Traynor as the 61st best third baseman of all time. Those ahead of him include Travis Fryman, Jeff Cirillo, Gary Gaetti, Doug DeCinces, Toby Harrah, and Buddy Bell.

    By the way, JAWS puts Baker as the 13th best third baseman of all-time, right between Graig Nettles and Ken Boyer. I wouldn't put those two guys in either.

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  6. #76





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    Whitey Herzog MGR

    Bill James had a good article a few years ago (so some of the newer HOF managers were missing from it) that basically had Herzog as one of the worst HOF managers. The ones rated below him have already been removed and he doesn't have the best managerial stats so I'll remove him for today. He just isn't a must have manager in the HOF and I already value players over managers and coaches anyway so it is time to remove another manager IMO.

    Can't disagree. I have pretty much just ignored the managers list because I don't know that managers even belong in the Hall other than maybe the very top few.

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  7. #77
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    Hack Wilson
    "[B]uilt along the lines of a beer keg, and... not wholly unfamiliar with its contents," wrote Shirley Povich, Wilson likely suffered from fetal alcohol syndrome. He was born to a 17-year-old mother (who later died at 24), an alcoholic steelworker father who largely abandoned him after her death, and when born into a situation like that, eventually developed his own problems with alcohol that cut his career and life short. Wilson was the NL response to Babe Ruth, setting a single-season RBI record that still stands as a major league record today, and leading the NL in home runs four times in five years. The problem is that while his prime was ridiculously dominant, it was also incredibly short, seeming to fall off the mountain just as quickly as he rose (see also: Murphy, Dale), and was largely a one-trick pony as a guy who either knocked one over the fence or struck out (see also: Dunn, Adam). Despite hitting 56 in a season, he only had 240 career home runs. Despite a .300 average, he never made it to even HALF of 3000 hits.

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  8. #78




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    Hack Wilson didn't have "even HALF of 3000 hits", but he did have over 1,000 RBI's. Many HOFer's have way less in RBI's than him,even when they had a longer MLB career. Also, after almost 90 years (just short by a year), his "record" of RBI's in a season STILL STANDS (and the seasons now have MORE games than when he played). 190 RBI's in a SEASON a fantastic MLB record. Without a doubt a VERY IMPRESSIVE season record.

    Today my "elimination" is first baseman FRANK CHANCE. If it wasn't for "Tinkers to Evers to Chance" he'd have not made the HOF. None of his career "stats" are "outstanding" --- less than 1300 hits, total HR = 20, career RBI's = less than 600, and career BA is less than .300.

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  9. #79







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    Can't disagree. I have pretty much just ignored the managers list because I don't know that managers even belong in the Hall other than maybe the very top few.

    Yeah I feel the same way. A manager getting into the HOF should be more difficult than players because it is easier to be able to find a guy who can manager for 20 years versus somebody who can pitch or hit that long. Don't see many 50 and 60 year old players.

    All my picks for players keep getting taken so I'll go with Rabbit Maranville this time

    A career batting average of .258 with 28 home runs and 884 RBIs isn't really HOF worthy. He played 23 seasons so those totals are inflated a little bit....

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  10. #80
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    Red Schoendienst
    2400 hits is great, but not HOF-worthy. And unlike some in his era, he doesn't have the WWII-cost-him-time excuse: he was 22 in 1945 and didn't miss any time. If anything, a lack of players due to the war likely boosted him through the minors a little faster. Led the league in hits once, doubles once, steals once. Rarely struck out. Meh. Great fielder, but the Rejection Committee has already established that being a good fielder isn't enough on its own to warrant keeping a player in.

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