I'm already getting fed up

[creasecollector]

Nice discussion points. I moved this thread to the Hockey Card Forum, as it would be more appropriate there for this type of discussion thread.

[scottkoz20]

Let me ask a question - what would help with trading overall?

I do plan to share my thoughts, eventually.

[piper1]

Let me ask a question - what would help with trading overall?

I do plan to share my thoughts, eventually.

If you look at those of us who easily get at least 10 trades a month the one thing we all have in common is a fairly detailed list of what we have available for trade and exactly what it is that we are looking for. Also it is important to keep in mind that everyone else's time is just as important as yours so replies to offers and counter offers are also beneficial to successful trading. Finally, if your focus is primarily selling you need to try and understand that those who are active on the trader threads are not going to have same mindset or expectations as you do. Otherwise, as jackpot alluded to, there is the ignore feature for those who can't show common courtesy. I find that at least two thirds of those who wind up on my ignore list have typically exited the hobby within a calendar year anyway.

[Xspyrit]

Thanks for all the answers, will try to follow up on all conversations

I don't mess with hockey, but I have had some of the same issues with baseball. People either want A LOT for nothing or nothing at all. I have seen posts with people being so demanding on what they want and they have even said "I want to trade in my favor only." I personally don't get it, but I will just say that I have seen a difference. I use to trade a lot in the early 2000's and have recently gotten back into the collecting world and I have seen a difference, for sure.

"I want to trade in my favor only"... Now that's ridiculous and thank God I haven't seen that yet. However, for some, it seems to be the "silent" mantra... like if there was no point in doing a fair trade because it costs a few bucks to ship...

Nice to see I'm not totally crazy and that others have seen a difference in the trading process.

I certainly understand your frustrations. Between all the sites I have been on I am probably over 400 trades, and have greatly enjoyed the process the majority of the time. I don't trade nearly as much anymore since I stopped buying new product about ten years ago, now staying pretty much strictly with my vintage and Jari Kurri collections. I must say my positive experiences far outweigh my negative ones. I have had many generous traders, and really enjoy when I spot a card I have on someones list and can dig it up for them. But, over time it does seem to have become much more 'Ebay value' based. I used the price guides, but I was always much more concerned about getting what I wanted that I'm sure by now I am well in hole value-wise as I cared more about getting the cards I liked that matching values. I'm sure several traders have really felt they have gotten over on me, but no, I just didn't care. It's freakin' hockey cards for goodness sake.

I hope you have a run of good fortune in the traders you interact with, because it really can be such an enjoyable part of the hobby.

Yeah me too, the positive still outweighs the negative but the ratio has gotten worse over the years and that's what I find concerning. Me too, I used to trade blindly even if I was losing and get PC wants for nicer cards. Now I try to be more balanced in BV/Value in what would be a fair trade for both sides but that seems to be a problem. It's been really hard to get Chabot and Batherson cards through trade. I have 8 Batherson cards after 5 months lmao.

I stopped dealing in BV trades ... sure I've done a couple with some people I have done trades with in the past. I don't need Beckett to tell me what a card is worth ... who pays 100% of that anyways. I have some nice Cody Hodgson cards you can trade with me then ... What does a $6 BV mean on a Young Guns when it sells for 50 cents? Don't think it works??? ... well check out the leaderboard for trades in August ... then send me a PM. I will show you the two threads I used and I really didn't work hard at it. Just give fair value and people deal.

Keep your chin up ... remember it is a Hobby. Why do it if it isn't fun.
Kid

To me it's a mix of BV and SV on Ebay. I look at both to have an idea of the value of the card. I think for cards under 10$ value, you can afford to trade by BV and then put more consideration in to real value for more valuable cards. It's not an absolute rule but you know what I mean.

Yes I'd like to see the threads you used, maybe it could give me an idea or two

And I know it's a hobby, that's why I'm here, I do it for fun and for my love of hockey and also always liked collecting (was even collecting beverage cans as a kid, then it's been CDs as a teenager, then DVDs as a young adult). But the trading experience is not as smooth as it used to be and it's starting to take away a bit of the fun, that's my concern.

[pwskelly]

As someone who has recently jumped back into trading on SCF, (about 20 trades in the last month many still in process) compared to about 50 trades over the last 5-6 years, I have found that I have had to expand what I was looking for. My main PC has always been Liut and he doesn't have a large checklist. I have cornered the market on most of his cards, except for the rarer food issue or oddball items and some 1/1, plates, etc. I decided that if I wanted to trade on here, I had to start collecting other players and sets.

Once I expanded what I was looking for, it became a lot easier to trade on here. Furthermore, if I had a card that I really didn't need, but someone else could use, I was more than eager to trade it for trade bait or just any Montreal Canadiens cards that I could use. That has definitely helped me make a few more trades on here. If I can help someone else build up their PC, and it doesn't hurt or impact my own collection, why wouldn't I?

[Xspyrit]

2 more points I didn't talk about in the OP :

- rarely get answers/PMs from the threads I start. When it happened, several times I just never heard from the member again.

- many don't do their follow-ups (even if it takes a bit of time, at least answer). This one not very surprising too. I used to work in sales management and even though you expect highly paid professionals to do their follow-ups, it was not a natural thing.

Trades are for sure harder to make now as opposed to 5 - 10 - 15 years ago

A few reasons why:

1 - Some people still think the Beckett is the "good book" in the hobby. It is one of the most out dated tools to use today.

2 - People are unreasonable today with trade requests, everybody expects something for nothing .... or to get the big "sexy" card in the deal. It is quite easy when youre trading similar range cards for other similar range cards, but it gets much trickier when someone wants something big from you, but only has mid - low end today

3 - The hobby is much more expensive than it was 5 - 10 - 15 years ago. The average collector busts a lot less today than we used to, therefor most peoples trade list is a lot smaller.

4 - PCs seem to be a lot tighter and with so many more mid - higher end products released each year, there are a lot of nice autos / patches with somewhat low print runs for you to chase of you guy or team. As a player or team collector, I can be more specific / picky on what I want to add to my collection.

5 - Most people will say, I will trade for " X / Y / Z players for their PC .... or Crosby / McDavid / Mattews / Gretzky / insert hot new rookie here " Unfortunately, because less of us bust, we dont have "new hot rookie" and im sure most of us dont have rookies or autos of the players listed before readily available

6 - Shipping cost. Simply put, its more expensive to trade, especially crossing the border when you need to add tracking.


The way I see the trade you posted

His cards:
- 36 common Young Guns - $0.50 - $1.00 each
- 12 YG no big names - $3.00 - $8.00 each
- 5 jerseys - $2.00 - $10.00 ( of course this can vary depending on set / name )
TOTAL VALUE - maybe $100

Your cards:
Subban/kadri/Cowan 10-11 triple auto /25 BV $250 - ( maybe $50 - $70 )

Or

Hedman auto patch /15 $100 BV - ( maybe $25-$40 depending on set )
Steve shutt auto jersey BV $100 (it's a The Cup Auto 3 CL Patch /50) - maybe $40
And 1 other card BV $50 - 50BV cards are generally $20 - $30 cards


While I too would have problem with moving better cards for low end cards, I usually ask for more value coming my way depending on how many cards I am taking back. I usually only deal with mid - higher end, but if I have a $100 card, I specify I want 1-2 cards back, and if you are offering more I expect more than the $100 value.

If he is offering about 50+ cards, at roughly $2.00 average a piece ....... I would expect to trade a lot of cards in return ..... or get much more value for the higher end cards im moving

1) I think Beckett is still useful for "ordinary" cards but agreed it's not the "be-all and end-all"

2) Yes, exactly, not everyone of course but many are trying to absolute win trades.

3) Yes, companies are to blame, first Panini arrival just over flooded the market and the number of cards to collect. Example : Zibanejad 245 different cards in 2011-12 vs Karlsson 157 different cards in 2009-10. Also, I find there's too many products in general. It's a hobby and it's normal that for most people, the budget will be limited for that. They are exaggerating

4) Yes, I noticed that. People are being more selective in general and a much more "narrow" wantlist, only focusing on those wants and no one seems to be trading for the sake of trading anymore. Personally, I do enjoy doing that even if it cost me a few dollars to ship. There's no money I can't afford to lose in my hobby budget. Like I said in the OP, I spent 83$ on shipping to make a trade with a Swedish member, just to shuffle my traders and kick start a new YG PC. I even traded some OEL high end cards to get the rest of his common YGs.

5) Yes, also noticed that, some people seem to only target the best players of all time. It kind of makes it hard to succeed making a trade.

6) shipping in Canada still very cheap, 1.90$ or even 3.12$ is nothing, I mean I would hope it's nothing for everybody. Shipping to USA from Canada is cheap too, 3.12$ as long as you don't have to send a large quantity. I know the opposite has gotten expensive but there's a way they could send for cheap. I try to give the trick to some US traders but nobody has tried it yet.

No you have the trade wrong, sorry if it was not clear enough. It was :

I send :

5 GU cards (2003-04 Titanium JSY /50, Ultimate Patch /75, Artifacts dual /100, 2 more quads)

He sends :

12 YG (good player YG, 1 decent and 10 commons)

Then there was another lot of 36 YGs (234$ BV, all commons) that I wanted to get and the guy wanted either the SOTT triple auto /25 or the Hedman Auto Patch /15 and Shutt Auto Patch /50 + another 50$ BV card...

Even based on the value you're giving the YG lot was 60$ maximum value (that'd be generous IMO) vs the 5 Jerseys (maybe 30$ value) and the rest of higher end cards.

In the last 2 weeks I've made 10 trades with 10 different person and every deal went smoothly and everyone was very reasonable with their demands.

But of course not everyone is a good trader though but there is an ignore feature for that. It's not that big of a deal if someone waste your time, it's part of the game, it's gonna happen from time to time, we can't expect everything to go perfectly.

That sounds more like it was 5 years ago for me, and that's where I am getting at here, I have noticed that the ratio of trades going smoothly has went down significantly. You can choose to care or not, personally, I eventually won't want to waste more time on this and could easily just stop logging in. Doesn't matter, I'm just one person in the hobby but if it eventually becomes a wider problem, then forget about the value of your cards.

That being said, the point of the thread is really not that we should expect everything to go "perfectly", I never said as such, don't worry my life experience allows me to know that nothing is perfect...

Hahaha ^ scottkoz20 lol

ive been in the hobby since the late 90’s, left for a bit, then got back into it. Up until some point last year when I found this site, I never really had anyone to trade with because of the remoteness of where I lived, so always had to buy packs and boxes when I visited an area with a card shop.

ive noticed how tricky trading can be. I personally don’t care who gets the better end of the deal, as long as both parties are getting what they need/want. I’ve had deals fall apart because of bv, and deals fall apart because of sell value. As a general rule, I use bv just because it’s a static number to work with, when sale value can really be all over the board depending on when a listing finishes and who might be on at that time to get those final bids in. But at the end of the day, if it’s a card that I want, and I have a card that someone wants, I try to make it work.

ive been hosed on a few deals (I collect Sens rookies, generally aren’t high end rookies, but still have high bv in some cases), but they were Cards I wanted, so didn’t care.

ive noticed that there are some really good traders on here that will make stuff work for the same reasons (Opulent Jupiter for example), but there are a lot of other traders that can be a bit harder to work with.

its def trickier than it should be, and can be more time consuming than it should be, but even if I’m able to make 1-2 trades a month happen, and move some cards that I don’t need (and take up space) for cards that I want, then it’s worth it.

keep your chin up bud, just have a look through your pc and you’ll see why it’s worth the headaches some times.

Very good post. As I remember, it was a very good experience with you so that's why I keep coming. And you're right, I'm just not going to target making several trades per month. I think I'm going to focus more on buying/selling to buy even more lol

2 years ago I stopped collecting all together (happiest year of my wife's life) but I found I missed it too much (been collecting since I was a kid over 40 years now) for the very same reasons, I loved online trading but it became too hard to work out trades. So when I started back up last year I decided I would buy what I needed for my sets (I'm much happier and my wife is on Prozac, win win).

Moral of the story I cut out the headaches and frustrations and have started loving one of my dearest hobbies again. I truly hope trading picks back up again, the one thing I miss is helping other collectors (not investors) with their collections.

Could we separate the site for traders for collecting and traders for investing? lol I don't know but you see, I'm not the only one. Too much time consuming for the results it brings.

I used to have a much more extensive want list and collection but I am semi-retired now so I have to be a little more selective in my trading habits than I was ten years ago. It doesn't help that I now also have to spend close to a thousand dollars a year on postage alone, which means that I also don't buy the number of boxes I used to. Those who get frustrated need to try and adjust their expectations as there will always be change over time and most certainly not all of it will be good.

You know what we should do, a few members together, we should buy a large stamps lot at a discount price, I can get one for about 50-60% of its face value.

You're right in changing my expectations. Even if just a hobby, I like when things get done. If I'm not, I feel like I'm not advancing so I guess I should just put trading as a low priority.

As someone who has recently jumped back into trading on SCF, (about 20 trades in the last month many still in process) compared to about 50 trades over the last 5-6 years, I have found that I have had to expand what I was looking for. My main PC has always been Liut and he doesn't have a large checklist. I have cornered the market on most of his cards, except for the rarer food issue or oddball items and some 1/1, plates, etc. I decided that if I wanted to trade on here, I had to start collecting other players and sets.

Once I expanded what I was looking for, it became a lot easier to trade on here. Furthermore, if I had a card that I really didn't need, but someone else could use, I was more than eager to trade it for trade bait or just any Montreal Canadiens cards that I could use. That has definitely helped me make a few more trades on here. If I can help someone else build up their PC, and it doesn't hurt or impact my own collection, why wouldn't I?

Well if every trader was like you, I would certainly spend less time trying to but would still accomplish much more, one of the smoother trade I had. And you're right, so many times I take a card that I don't really need or know that I won't keep but still find interesting, if it can help somebody else and shuffle my cards at the same time, I really don't mind

Let me ask a question - what would help with trading overall?

I do plan to share my thoughts, eventually.

It's exactly where we have to try and get to with this. What can we do to make things more smooth/simple/fast/efficient?

Ideally I think the inventory manager would help a lot if everybody was using it and had it updated frequently. I think there's a sites where you just send notifications of cards you want from somebody else. I'm not sure how it works but I imagine then the other person indicates which cards is of interest.

The problem is let's say I check a few PC targets that are of reasonable value in the 10-20$ BV range and then the other would target only a Crosby 3 colors Patch... Then it's probably not really a collector but just an "investor" like Parco said earlier...

Maybe we need a tool for collectors alone. I don't know but something I will think about and we need to think about as a group/community

Anyway I find all this interesting and worthy of a discussion, thank you for all those participating

[RGM81]

It is more difficult to make swaps in recent years...usually.

I do thank you for reaching out to me about making a trade, and in our case it's something as simple as there's no fit in terms of stuff I'm looking for in my collection. Having been active for most of the past 11 years now, I'm getting pretty specific as to what I want with the guys in my signature being my main focus. And within those guys I am picky too...there's so much out there of every player now that unless you're super-collecting or trying to "get em all" you've gotta be focused. Stuff costs more, I don't want to make a trade just for the sake of making a trade, and like others have said because I break so very little these days my trader stock is pretty limited...in all likelihood I don't have much of what other people are wanting unless I get lucky in a break or find someone to swap Habs cards with.

Add to that, my spare time is pretty limited these days as I'm focusing on the upcoming federal election and helping my candidate/party of choice...and it just doesn't leave much time for card trading.

[Maggot]

Trading definitely is more difficult these days, but you have to take it as it comes and can't let it get to you. It's worth the time, usually.
BV and people looking to "win" trades definitely are frustrating, but just let them know no deal and move on.
The most frustrating thing, IMO, is when someone asks me to review a list, I pick out some low-end Blues I could use for my PC, then they come back with 5 HOF GU/AUs they want in return. Total waste of time.

Another thing, people who want to buy, I once made a lot with Tarasenko YG, 11 more YGs (Pietrangelo, Parayko, Edmunson YGs, etc), plus Joe Mullen RC and a Fabbri 3 colors Patch /25. The guy was not offering more than 33$ shipped to the US... I was asking for a reasonable 48$ delivered. I mean, it's not very hard to get 30$+ just for the Tarasenko

As you know, that guy was me. Here's how this went down:
I posted a thread on HI looking for bulk Blues at bulk price. You offered up the small lot which is worth $45 retail (and that's local prices!). I offered $33 shipped. Entirely fair offer, considering these aren't PC pieces and I need to come out AT LEAST 20% ahead to make it worthwhile for a bulk purchase. This was pre-cup as well, all time low in Blues prices.
Again, you approached me, I offered a fair price, you didn't like it and got combative.
It was unfortunate, and hopefully doesn't prevent possible future deals. People won't always see eye to eye, just the nature of the game.

[Xspyrit]

It is more difficult to make swaps in recent years...usually.

I do thank you for reaching out to me about making a trade, and in our case it's something as simple as there's no fit in terms of stuff I'm looking for in my collection. Having been active for most of the past 11 years now, I'm getting pretty specific as to what I want with the guys in my signature being my main focus. And within those guys I am picky too...there's so much out there of every player now that unless you're super-collecting or trying to "get em all" you've gotta be focused. Stuff costs more, I don't want to make a trade just for the sake of making a trade, and like others have said because I break so very little these days my trader stock is pretty limited...in all likelihood I don't have much of what other people are wanting unless I get lucky in a break or find someone to swap Habs cards with.

Add to that, my spare time is pretty limited these days as I'm focusing on the upcoming federal election and helping my candidate/party of choice...and it just doesn't leave much time for card trading.

Don't worry, nothing wrong as we were testing ground as to what was possible. Like you say, if there's not anything you're looking for, then there's no fit. It's not like you made a thread and I messaged you I had some of your wants, then we talk back and forth and the deals falls off for stupid reasons.

Trading definitely is more difficult these days, but you have to take it as it comes and can't let it get to you. It's worth the time, usually.
BV and people looking to "win" trades definitely are frustrating, but just let them know no deal and move on.
The most frustrating thing, IMO, is when someone asks me to review a list, I pick out some low-end Blues I could use for my PC, then they come back with 5 HOF GU/AUs they want in return. Total waste of time.

Agreed

As you know, that guy was me. Here's how this went down:
I posted a thread on HI looking for bulk Blues at bulk price. You offered up the small lot which is worth $45 retail (and that's local prices!). I offered $33 shipped. Entirely fair offer, considering these aren't PC pieces and I need to come out AT LEAST 20% ahead to make it worthwhile for a bulk purchase. This was pre-cup as well, all time low in Blues prices.
Again, you approached me, I offered a fair price, you didn't like it and got combative.
It was unfortunate, and hopefully doesn't prevent possible future deals. People won't always see eye to eye, just the nature of the game.

Well, I didn't want any username to be revealed, but your choice. I don't remember it was a search for bulk lots, if that's the case I should have not tried to include the Tarasenko YG and Fabbri Patch. And anyway, don't have enough quantity of low end to make team bulk lots. My mistake. That being said, still don't think 33$ for the lot would be "fair", considering it would cost 5$ right off the bat for shipping, so it was more 28$, which is the minimum I'd sell the Tarasenko for.

But like you said, we didn't see eye to eye, my mistake was not to identify that you wanted cheap lots. It was not pre-cup though. I came back to the hobby end of April, and I came back here first, took me a while before I went back on HI so it was in June/July. Actually, your thread was posted June 29th. But that being said, I don't hold a grudge against anybody and even if things didn't work out, I'm always ready to try again.

[Doctor Who]

Although I'm new here, I've read on various trading websites especially Facebook that they will only accept cards like Trout, Harper, Machado, Soto, Acuna , Tatis and Alonso, etc...if they're going to trade their commons and "common" inserts (I'm not good at explaining at times). I think that the conditions for a trade are a joke. Someone even put the person wanting Trout, Harper, Acuna and Soto cards in their place. I can see where Xspyrit is coming from. What I'm also trying to say is that to me, card collecting is fun and we need to keep it that way.

I don't mess with hockey, but I have had some of the same issues with baseball. People either want A LOT for nothing or nothing at all. I have seen posts with people being so demanding on what they want and they have even said "I want to trade in my favor only." I personally don't get it, but I will just say that I have seen a difference. I use to trade a lot in the early 2000's and have recently gotten back into the collecting world and I have seen a difference, for sure.