Has anybody ever heard of "razzing"??

[Leafsman]

You sure do have problems with people creating different ways to make money in this hobby.

This is just gambling. Usually you can get more for a card from a Razz than on ebay or private sales.

It benefits the sellers ( they get the price they want without the hassle of fees ) and it benefits the winner, as they get a card at a fraction of the price.

This is no different than buying Mystery packs or breaking boxes. All just forms of gambling.

People know exactly what theyre getting themselves into when purchasing a spot in a Razz, and if done by a reputable group, theres really very little risk of foul play.

Yes, yes I do have a problem with people trying to make money this way. More specifically, I have a problem who make money this way and still call it their "hobby".

Why? Because if you're only reason for being involved is to make money, it isn't a hobby. A hobby is something you do for fun, not for profit.

I collect because I enjoy it. I have no interest in profiting from it. It really is "something to do" for me.

If I buy, I want to be guaranteed that I'm getting something.

[mooneyes]

It looks like a decent way to have a shot at winning a card you actually like. The only catch is if the prize is owned by a group of people all of which are in on the razz. For that reason I am hesitant to try one.

[subban7677]

I'm not interested, so I don't participate. I'm unsure if it is actually illegal or not, but I think calling people who do it "criminals" is a bit much.

[sparty07]

If others in the hobby want to "gamble" on a chance to win a card and you don't let them. Every time I participate in a break it's a gamble, every time I buy a pack of cards it's a gamble that I'll get something worthwhile. The only way to truly guarantee something you want is to buy that specific item, which some people don't see as being fun as the chance and mystery that surrounds packs, boxes, breaks and yes razzes.
Also, just because your situation (based on what I've seen) doesn't let you sell cards, doesn't mean it's against the hobby to sell cards. I sell cards that don't fit my PC so I can buy cards that do. I am not opposed to trading, but sometimes your wants and someone elses wants don't match up. When that happens, in many cases a sale can make a transaction happen.

My general opinion of how you should handle collecting cards is the way you want and the only people you should crap/look down on is those specifically taking advantage of people/scamming people. As in, I saw a facebook post about a guy at a Tim Hortons trade event who traded a younger kid for their Tim Horton SP for a $1-2 card. That is wrong.

Yes, yes I do have a problem with people trying to make money this way. More specifically, I have a problem who make money this way and still call it their "hobby".

Why? Because if you're only reason for being involved is to make money, it isn't a hobby. A hobby is something you do for fun, not for profit.

I collect because I enjoy it. I have no interest in profiting from it. It really is "something to do" for me.

If I buy, I want to be guaranteed that I'm getting something.

[canucksfan007]

Yes, yes I do have a problem with people trying to make money this way. More specifically, I have a problem who make money this way and still call it their "hobby".

Why? Because if you're only reason for being involved is to make money, it isn't a hobby. A hobby is something you do for fun, not for profit.

I collect because I enjoy it. I have no interest in profiting from it. It really is "something to do" for me.

If I buy, I want to be guaranteed that I'm getting something.

Let people enjoy the hobby the way they want to. They dont need to be called criminals or scam artists because you are unable to enjoy the hobby the same way as they do. It would be foolish to have knowledge about something, and not use that knowledge to make profit to enjoy your hobby even more.

Dont need people going around telling people how to enjoy the hobby properly, based on their own opinions.

You are also wrong with your description of the word "Hobby"

As per Dictionary.com

Hobby - an activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure.

I enjoy making money, while collecting cards ..... looks like I got myself a double hobby here.

I would suggest if you have so many issues with the way people enjoy this hobby ...... maybe this is another reason why this hobby is not for you anymore.

[doniceage]

I disagree; there are two differences between these and raffles. One, proceeds from a raffle go to some worthy cause, not in some low-life's pocket so they can profit from it.

Two, raffles require a lottery license to run. Most are done legally by organizations for charity. Whether it is popular or not, as @Iheartjacquie said, these razzes are not legal in Canada. This guy is in Canada, he claims. I refuse to participate in something illegal.

First of let not call them low life as sometimes they person doing the razzes do not even own the card. They do get a tip from the owner of the card if the razz fills.

Now back to your original question you must have been missing out on the razz sensation as it been going on for years. There is pro's and con's as you say but just like you say your throwing your money away there are some cards which you would never be able to afford. Say there a 1000 dollar card and you get in with a 100 folks for $10. I mean the chances are slim if you win but it no different than playing the lottery with the dream of hitting it big for little to nothing.

There a lot of problem with PayPal being accepted as they been cracking down on the razz portion as you mention there is nothing guaranteed. The thing razz is a big thing and I see it not slowing down anywhere in the future. It is not my cup of tea much like you but to each their own. Not going to go out and call someone a low life for providing something some folks want in on for whatever reason. It much like breakers who overcharge are they low lifes etc. or are they just good in selling the goods and offering a entertainment value that collectors eat up and forget the cost factor.

The low life folks are the one who rig the razzes which happen to make people truly question who they join razzes with.
DON

[RGM81]

I've had very limited participation in razzes. They're fun when you win, less so when you don't. It all comes down to what amount of truly disposable income you've got for the hobby because throwing away $5-$50 at a time isn't particularly enjoyable, but for some, much like cracking wax itself, it's the thrill of the chase. You get that big PC card for $20 instead of $200 and it's a pretty good feeling.

It is very much a legal grey area, which is why it's called a "razz" in the first place and not a "raffle," which is exactly what it is. Buy your spot, take your chance, maybe you win and maybe you don't.

I don't begrudge people for doing what they will in the hobby. It's not something I do much of but there's a lot of guys out there that do it extensively to fund future purchases and keep the cycle going.

[30ranfordfan]

I find this funny.

Yeah I've heard of them, no I don't participate. Not my thing. Would rather save the cash, and spend it on something I know I'll get.....


That being said, I have zero issue with someone wanting to run these (if they're honest) and zero issue with anyone wanting to participate in them (again, if they're honest).

It's a way for people to roll the dice, and get a really nice card for a fraction of the price. Maybe. Sometimes.

As for the whole 'this should be a hobby, not a means to make money'. Dude. Get over it. There are a LOT of people in the card world that are there to make money. You can avoid them if you want, but they're there.

There's also a lot of people who fall into the happy middle. The collect for fun, but the amount of money they actually have to put into their hobby is limited. Some more limited than others...... so they save up for that box of SPA, and pull a high valued card. It's not one they actually want to keep. I think you'll find that people are able to max out the value they get back for that card by razzing it... and now they've got more money to sink into their hobby. I can't comprehend why this is a big to anyone.


Don't like the idea of sinking money into a draw, where you may get nothing? I'm with you. I don't either. Have some moral opposition to others doing it? I don't get it.

[scottkoz20]

ok - I'm going to chime in here - I thought I hit post 2 days ago... but....

Lets look at the Legal aspect of Razzes (Raffles)... I had a private discussion with a Lawyer a couple years back as I was considering Razzes to be allowed on SCF and I asked the following 2 questions (and answers that follow)

======
I have a question on online raffles, as it relates to trading cards. Is it even legal?

>>>Depends on how it is set up. If it asks for people to pay in, and some people don't get anything...then likely not.

Thanks for answering. So if I understand this right, the loophole is that if people get "something", even a business card, then it's "OK"?

>>>No, it’s a lot more complex than that. Every state differs, some require registering, most require that every participant get something of equal or close to equal value if not not registered, there should be a no-purchase necessary option, etc...state lottery, sweepstakes and contest laws are difficult. Most companies out source this to experts
======

Here is the breakdown and why SCF does not allow these "Every state differs, some require registering, most require that every participant get something" (and this does not even take Canada into account). Personally, I am NOT against them but as the legal holder of SCF, I cannot plead ignorance like Facebook and Twitter than can.

SO, its traditional buying, selling. If you are a VIP Member, you CAN do auctions... I need to dust this option off for members.


NOW - to the other issue that I see in this thread... I agree 100% with @doniceage - most people that decide to host these are NOT low-lifes; whether you agree with the practice or not. I have no issue with people finding ways to support their participation in the hobby and it they make some money at it, so be it.

Its also one's perspective to hold the belief that they find it wrong. Having a constructive discussion is fine, as long it does not cross over into a b!tch fest.

[RGM81]

And even within Canada @scottkoz20 there are different jurisdictions when it comes to raffles. Here in BC, I deal with BC Gaming a lot at work. When you submit your application you have to provide them with the ticket buy-in price & number of tickets to be sold, a list of all prizes and values, plus tell them when the draw will take place. It is very highly regulated - it also costs $10 at a minimum to do it legit. Could you imagine having to go through that, ensuring that all your buyers are 19+, oh yeah and because they're still rooted firmly in the 20th century you can only do online sales if you sign up for a Class A licence which costs $50, comes with a 10-week approval wait period, and you have to have a minimum $20,000 in sales.

All of these above are why razzes fall outside of the legal realm, and why you pretty much always see guys taking payment and ensuring people pay as gift with no comments.

It is what it is. They're a very helpful piece of the hobby puzzle. If a dude has the time & energy to run nightly razzes he's helping the hobby by engaging people, making $$ for himself to go buy more wax, which keeps the B&M running, etc. Just another brick in the wall...