Jersey cards - is supply/demand ratio changing?

[Savard18]

Something I like to do just for fun is when I see people posting jersey cards at ridiculously good prices I'll buy em up. I don't particularly collect them or put them into sets (i'm a set builder) but I just love them and since there's no real demand for them people will often post bunches of them for almost nothing - so it's a fun guilt-free buy.

The thing is...I've barely seen any such listings for the past few months - there used to be so many what would limit me buying them was not wanting to blow too much money, whereas lately I've barely seen anyone list them.

Is there an uptick in demand for jersey cards and/or a reduction in supply of them? it's just odd how scarce they seem to be on SCF

A lot of the crap out there now is "event worn, at an official photo shoot" And that's off the back of a random SP Game Used card I just grabbed - especially with the rookie stuff.. What ever happened to GAME USED in SP Game Used? I mean they just put on a jersey for 2 seconds, take a picture, then put another one on, snap a pic and repeat... Big deal, a player wore a jersey for a couple of seconds... It's all a bunch of crap... That's why I stay away from "rookie" jersey cards, unless it's an ITG card, and they usually release rookie cards with ACTUAL GU jerseys from their junior clubs.... But I would much rather have an ACTUAL rookie GU jersey from a junior club instead of some swatch or patch off a jersey the rookie only wore for 2 seconds..

I mean if you want a REAL GU rookie jersey card, then buy his 2nd year GU card, because those jerseys were actually used in an official NHL game when that player was a rookie....

I mean just for the sake of it and for the benefit of collectors that collect actual game used items, Upper Deck should organize a "Draft Pick All-Star Game" - then have the kids wear the jerseys of the team that drafted them, then that way Upper Deck can issue legitimate Game Used Jersey cards instead of that "event worn at a photo shoot" nonsense....I mean the game could be a charity event as well, give all the proceeds to a hockey related charity - not only that but it would give the fans an opportunity to see their teams top picks play for the first time if they don't follow junior or European hockey... It could be a game for First and Second round picks....

With that said and I'm sure many will disagree with me, but ITG is superior to Upper Deck when it comes to Game Used material, not only that but superior in many ways... I don't know what makes Upper Deck so great? what, they own the merchandising rights to every NHL team? ..... It's almost like Upper Deck knowing they're essentially a monopoly in the hobby, know they have little competition so they keep on putting out crap because they have no competition to keep them on their toes... I mean IMO, the only set that is worth a damn is SP Game Used, and even they've been slipping on that recently..

IMO, I think UD needs an upgrade - they need to clean house and bring in creative people with fresh new ideas....

Here is an idea, why not issue redemption cards for actual game used autographed jerseys - as in the entire jersey not just a swatch or patch - the entire thing... See, that would be cool, or redemption cards for actual game used autographed sticks and other game used equipment - not only that but IMO, Upper Deck should "game date" all of their GU jersey cards so the collector knows what game that jersey is from - they could even put their game stats on the back of the card instead of that "Congratulations, you have received a piece of a jersey worn in an official NHL game, enjoy your card" - well I would enjoy the card more if I knew which game that jersey was used in and what the players stats were for that game.... I mean I'm sure collectors would like that information and would love to collect jerseys of players that perhaps scored a hat trick in that jersey.....

Or even "game dated cards" with a swatch or patch and a piece of the puck, and maybe the stick in which the player scored, then put the period, time of the goal, who assisted on it and the players stats for that game somewhere on the card... Cards like that would be awesome.... Or even "hat trick cards" where UD gets the jersey of the player that scored the hat trick, they get the pucks and the stick - then cut up the picks, put them into cards along with the stick and jersey, and let collectors collect the hat trick by finding cards that have pieces of pucks from every goal of the hat trick...

I mean it would be pretty cool to have a GU game dated AO card which had a patch, a piece of his stick and a piece of the puck involved in his hat trick... And the goal is to collect cards with pieces from the pucks from every goal of the hat trick... IMO, collectors would go bonkers trying to collect the hat trick....

I mean UD probably gets 150 swatches from every jersey and maybe 50 pieces of patches and could get a decent amount of rubber from 3 pucks and a couple 100 pieces from the stick... So they could do at least xxx/150 for the jerseys, xx/50 for the patch version and xxx/100 for the sticks and UD could probably get 30 pieces from each puck - so they could make maybe a xx/20 card per puck that contains a piece of the puck, the stick and the patch and the point is to collect a three pucks to make the "hat trick"... I mean those cards would go for $250-300 each easily.

IDK, I just think UD could be a little more creative.

[subban7677]

I don't think anyone will disagree that ITG, or now Leaf, do a better job of using real game used material than Upper Deck.

And I don't think UD will ever put more specifics about the material used in the cards. One...it's cheaper and easier to "copy and paste" the same statement over and over, as opposed to writing a new one with each card. Two...the ambiguity of the statement may protect them from lawsuits if they mess up and use the wrong pieces. "We said they were game used...we didn't say WHAT game, or by WHICH player".

[30ranfordfan]

A lot of the crap out there now is "event worn, at an official photo shoot" And that's off the back of a random SP Game Used card I just grabbed - especially with the rookie stuff.. What ever happened to GAME USED in SP Game Used? I mean they just put on a jersey for 2 seconds, take a picture, then put another one on, snap a pic and repeat... Big deal, a player wore a jersey for a couple of seconds... It's all a bunch of crap... That's why I stay away from "rookie" jersey cards, unless it's an ITG card, and they usually release rookie cards with ACTUAL GU jerseys from their junior clubs.... But I would much rather have an ACTUAL rookie GU jersey from a junior club instead of some swatch or patch off a jersey the rookie only wore for 2 seconds..

I mean if you want a REAL GU rookie jersey card, then buy his 2nd year GU card, because those jerseys were actually used in an official NHL game when that player was a rookie....

I mean just for the sake of it and for the benefit of collectors that collect actual game used items, Upper Deck should organize a "Draft Pick All-Star Game" - then have the kids wear the jerseys of the team that drafted them, then that way Upper Deck can issue legitimate Game Used Jersey cards instead of that "event worn at a photo shoot" nonsense....I mean the game could be a charity event as well, give all the proceeds to a hockey related charity - not only that but it would give the fans an opportunity to see their teams top picks play for the first time if they don't follow junior or European hockey... It could be a game for First and Second round picks....

That's kind of what they do now. The "Rookie Photoshoot". They're not playing a game, just playing around on the ice.... doing different things, and wearing god knows how many different jerseys (all with extra patches sewn on).

There is no incentive to change. People lap up all the rookie stuff, and it costs them so much less to make.

Think about a 1st year NHLer. I think it's typical that players will go through three sets of jerseys in a regular season, plus another in the playoffs. Maybe a specific guy wears more if something happens to one of his. I'd be surprised if a normal year yielded more than half a dozen home & away (each) jerseys. A photoshoot? They can have that rookie where 25 of them, and they've got material for the next decade.

If UD would stop flooding the market with rookie photoshoot stuff... limited its use to a handful of sets (SPX & Cup RPAs, Ice Patches, Rookie Materials in UD2, SPA FW Limited Patch / Auto - and that's it?) those cards would likely all increase in demand (the ones that are low on it now, anyway). They could also make a bigger deal over "first game used" card of a player the following year.

I'm also unsure why they couldn't use their exclusive to gain better access to jerseys - even if they bear the cost of buying them.

A team may go through three sets of jerseys in a year, but why UD couldn't just buy an extra pro-stock McDavid jersey, and send someone to a game to make sure he wears it for that one game, give it to them, then go back to his team issued one the next game? Why couldn't UD do that with 100 players a year? Seems like it would be easy, and a cheap way for them to get REAL game used.

If they did something like that - they could actually say the game/date it was worn too.

With that said and I'm sure many will disagree with me, but ITG is superior to Upper Deck when it comes to Game Used material, not only that but superior in many ways... I don't know what makes Upper Deck so great? what, they own the merchandising rights to every NHL team? ..... It's almost like Upper Deck knowing they're essentially a monopoly in the hobby, know they have little competition so they keep on putting out crap because they have no competition to keep them on their toes... I mean IMO, the only set that is worth a damn is SP Game Used, and even they've been slipping on that recently..

Just so we're not mixing up names & brands - ITG hasn't made cards in several years. It's all Leaf now, using many of ITG's old brands.

Other than that, I'd say you're pretty bang on. UD was at its best when it had competition. Panini had some issues (they also had some spectacular cards) but in addition to making their own stuff, they also forced UD to be better. I do like some of what UD puts out... but they're lazy, in a lot of respects. They can afford to be, because there is no other licensed manufacturer.

Superior may not be the right word, but they're certainly preferred. A big part of that is Rookie Cards. Virtually nobody will recognize an unlicensed card as a rookie card. Same goes for something that's not in an NHL set. ITG Connor McDavid stuff from 2015 (and earlier) may have looked great. They had hard signed autos of him two years before he made the NHL. Actual Game Used (Erie) stuff.... but none of those are rookie cards. I'm 100% behind the notion of "collect what you like" - but if people like "rookie cards" they have no choice by to buy from Upper Deck.

IMO, I think UD needs an upgrade - they need to clean house and bring in creative people with fresh new ideas....

Here is an idea, why not issue redemption cards for actual game used autographed jerseys - as in the entire jersey not just a swatch or patch - the entire thing... See, that would be cool, or redemption cards for actual game used autographed sticks and other game used equipment - not only that but IMO, Upper Deck should "game date" all of their GU jersey cards so the collector knows what game that jersey is from - they could even put their game stats on the back of the card instead of that "Congratulations, you have received a piece of a jersey worn in an official NHL game, enjoy your card" - well I would enjoy the card more if I knew which game that jersey was used in and what the players stats were for that game.... I mean I'm sure collectors would like that information and would love to collect jerseys of players that perhaps scored a hat trick in that jersey.....

Or even "game dated cards" with a swatch or patch and a piece of the puck, and maybe the stick in which the player scored, then put the period, time of the goal, who assisted on it and the players stats for that game somewhere on the card... Cards like that would be awesome.... Or even "hat trick cards" where UD gets the jersey of the player that scored the hat trick, they get the pucks and the stick - then cut up the picks, put them into cards along with the stick and jersey, and let collectors collect the hat trick by finding cards that have pieces of pucks from every goal of the hat trick...

I mean it would be pretty cool to have a GU game dated AO card which had a patch, a piece of his stick and a piece of the puck involved in his hat trick... And the goal is to collect cards with pieces from the pucks from every goal of the hat trick... IMO, collectors would go bonkers trying to collect the hat trick....

I mean UD probably gets 150 swatches from every jersey and maybe 50 pieces of patches and could get a decent amount of rubber from 3 pucks and a couple 100 pieces from the stick... So they could do at least xxx/150 for the jerseys, xx/50 for the patch version and xxx/100 for the sticks and UD could probably get 30 pieces from each puck - so they could make maybe a xx/20 card per puck that contains a piece of the puck, the stick and the patch and the point is to collect a three pucks to make the "hat trick"... I mean those cards would go for $250-300 each easily.

IDK, I just think UD could be a little more creative.

A lot of their products.... I think it's "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". They can keep the presses rolling, and people buy it.... so why change?

They have done redemptions for complete jerseys. A couple of years ago you could actually pull a card to trade in for an entire set of game used equipment from Scott Niedermayer.

If UD was more involved in the process of getting the jersey (i.e. sending someone out, and having them get it after the game) I think it's realistic they COULD game-date stuff.... but like has already been mentioned: Then they couldn't use a standard template, so things get costlier. They also open themselves up to lawsuits... if they guarantee a jersey to have been worn on Feb 21st, 2017 - and its proven to be false.... they could be out a lot of cash. The Ambiguity is done on purpose. It covers their butts when they make mistakes (switch memorabilia, what if they write the wrong date?).

[sparty07]

I may be against the grain on this one, but I'm not a fan of ITG vintage game used stuff. I prefer to preserve that historical stuff. Now guys use 3 sticks a game and the teams can rotate through any number of jerseys a year (I agree with one of the comments that UD should partner with teams to get 2-3 legit game used jerseys a year).

[RGM81]

I may be against the grain on this one, but I'm not a fan of ITG vintage game used stuff. I prefer to preserve that historical stuff. Now guys use 3 sticks a game and the teams can rotate through any number of jerseys a year (I agree with one of the comments that UD should partner with teams to get 2-3 legit game used jerseys a year).

Someone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I *think* they do have a program like this with some teams (if not all). I have a vague recollection of seeing a tag at some point over the years that has all the MeiGray stuff plus an UD logo on it to provide that added backup that this jersey goes to UD once it's gone through the life cycle (be it one game or whatever). I know that the Habs' fan program, Club 1909, has a points redemption for game-used jerseys and the players wear those jerseys (usually one home, one away per season) for one game and then they go into the rewards portal. So it's easily enough done to make that arrangement, particularly for the exclusive licensee.

As others have stated throughout this thread and others, the issue comes down to market saturation. Carey Price has nearly 2,400 memorabilia cards produced. For someone who has followed his entire career, it is beyond easy to access pieces of game-worn material spanning his time from Tri-City to Team Canada to the Habs (there's not much for Hamilton). Of those 2,400'ish cards, I own probably 120 or game-used cards. Patches, jerseys, sticks, pads, you name it. Some of them I specifically picked up because of the design or the image, some are just...there, because I wanted to make a trade or it was $5 or whatever other reason.

Guys like Carey, or McDavid, or Crosby, or any of the big stars of today, you can get their stuff easily enough. Sure, a particular card may be a challenge (I still need to get a "40 Win Club" from this year's SPGU), but if you just want a McDavid GU card, shouldn't be a real problem. I know that UD has made efforts to limit players in certain releases--Limited Logos in The Cup is an example, where they're on a 3-year rotation with some players--but if they want to make the jersey card popular again they need to have nice designs, feature something impactful about a player, and go beyond having the same guys in each set, each year.

[30ranfordfan]

I've never heard of that (that they have a program) but it could very well be the case.

To me, it would be simple... and let's pretend that there are already 32 teams in the league.

Someone from UD goes to 16 games a year, seeing each team play once. They provide four jerseys to each game (two for each team). The players wear them, and UD takes them home. Do that every season, and not allowed to have the same player do it more than once, in a three year span.

That would put GU material from 6 players per team, aside from the photoshoot stuff, every three years. 192 players around the league. You'd get some variety without saturation.

Of course I'd love to the see the BAP brand brought back for autographs: One-Per-Pack, hard signed autos. Make it a standard size set every year: 234 Vets, 18 Rookies (I'd like to see a checklist of 250+ and I also like multiples of 9). Only include players that have been in the league for 3+ year (other than the rookies) and only include a player once every three years. That would be 7-8 autographs (on average) per team, per year.

Someone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I *think* they do have a program like this with some teams (if not all). I have a vague recollection of seeing a tag at some point over the years that has all the MeiGray stuff plus an UD logo on it to provide that added backup that this jersey goes to UD once it's gone through the life cycle (be it one game or whatever). I know that the Habs' fan program, Club 1909, has a points redemption for game-used jerseys and the players wear those jerseys (usually one home, one away per season) for one game and then they go into the rewards portal. So it's easily enough done to make that arrangement, particularly for the exclusive licensee.

As others have stated throughout this thread and others, the issue comes down to market saturation. Carey Price has nearly 2,400 memorabilia cards produced. For someone who has followed his entire career, it is beyond easy to access pieces of game-worn material spanning his time from Tri-City to Team Canada to the Habs (there's not much for Hamilton). Of those 2,400'ish cards, I own probably 120 or game-used cards. Patches, jerseys, sticks, pads, you name it. Some of them I specifically picked up because of the design or the image, some are just...there, because I wanted to make a trade or it was $5 or whatever other reason.

Guys like Carey, or McDavid, or Crosby, or any of the big stars of today, you can get their stuff easily enough. Sure, a particular card may be a challenge (I still need to get a "40 Win Club" from this year's SPGU), but if you just want a McDavid GU card, shouldn't be a real problem. I know that UD has made efforts to limit players in certain releases--Limited Logos in The Cup is an example, where they're on a 3-year rotation with some players--but if they want to make the jersey card popular again they need to have nice designs, feature something impactful about a player, and go beyond having the same guys in each set, each year.

[RGM81]

I've never heard of that (that they have a program) but it could very well be the case.

To me, it would be simple... and let's pretend that there are already 32 teams in the league.

Someone from UD goes to 16 games a year, seeing each team play once. They provide four jerseys to each game (two for each team). The players wear them, and UD takes them home. Do that every season, and not allowed to have the same player do it more than once, in a three year span.

That would put GU material from 6 players per team, aside from the photoshoot stuff, every three years. 192 players around the league. You'd get some variety without saturation.

Of course I'd love to the see the BAP brand brought back for autographs: One-Per-Pack, hard signed autos. Make it a standard size set every year: 234 Vets, 18 Rookies (I'd like to see a checklist of 250+ and I also like multiples of 9). Only include players that have been in the league for 3+ year (other than the rookies) and only include a player once every three years. That would be 7-8 autographs (on average) per team, per year.

I love the idea, personally. BAP was pretty cool in the short duration it ran through UD. The hard-signed aspect, though, that's going to impact how many participants they'll get, unless the PA does a really hard push on the players to make it happen. IIRC, back when it ran in 07-08 and 08-09, UD was just the vehicle for delivery. The PA did all the leg work. It's easy to do with a sticker auto-based product. Hard-signed means they need to get the production done up front, send out the cards, and hope that you get the good names back before the cut-off date. With stickers, you just need to send out sheets to all your members, whoever gets them back in time gets a card. It would be interesting to see, in this current hobby environment, a product that has a ton of 3rd liners and 2nd pairing d-men would fare...