Mark Messier Trade Tree: Still Alive After Years!

[Savard18]

Not hours, no. lol.

I could have loosely rhymed off a lot of that. For whatever reason, these kinds of facts stick in my head really easy. I did have to look up some of the specifics, but hockeydb.com actually makes looking up this kind of information really easy. (lots of sites had trade information, but I find it really easy to use - links to each player are right there when you're looking at a trade).

I'm with you on Nicholls. I'm not sure how he's not in the Hall, with some of the other names that have already gotten there.

I had never heard of the Pepsi thing. I did a quick search, and it appears that there was an issue with it, yes. He wanted to put a Pepsi logo on his pads, but league rules forbid it. His agent blamed the Oilers, and tried to force a trade (apparently, to the Red Wings). If he'd been traded, he likely would have got a hefty raise... which the Oilers weren't giving him. It reads to me like his agent stirred the pot, and created an issue that would result in a trade, and the trade would get him more money.

After Fuhr realized that it was the league, and not the team, that was stopping the adds - things got patched up pretty quickly, and he was back with the club.

Still fantastic research tho, I use www.hockey-reference.com , however hockeydb does have some information lacking from hockey reference - usually players that never played in the NHL - so for the sake of trade trees that information is relevant considering a player doesn't have to play a game in the NHL to be traded hence turned into a serviceable NHL player that can go on to be traded continuing the trade tree.... I'm sure there are many trade trees that are still alive today because a team traded a guy that never played a game in the NHL for a player that did and was successful hence fetching valuable assets that further the tree.

It's kinda funny, because just yesterday I was going though some cards and came across a Steven Rice Olympic or WJC UD card, and on the back the bio was gushing on about how great and talented Rice is and how great he was going to be in the NHL, and how he's a "cant miss" prospect... lol... The weird thing about all of that is that I was watching hockey back then and collecting cards, and I don't recall that much hype around Steven Rice, but if you look back at the Messier trade in hindsight - at the time it made sense. I mean it's easy to take a look back at a trade and declare a winner, but unfortunately GM's don't have crystal balls, lol... So the Oilers did get value back in return for Messier, unfortunately Rice didn't pan out, had he then Nicholls & Rice would have been a decent return.

Another very interesting trade is the Lindros trade, I mean one could argue if Lindros was the best player in the trade considering Peter Forsberg was one of the pieces, and I doubt a GM would trade Forsberg straight up for Lindros 5-years later, well I'm sure some would - both were on the same level in 96-97 so if a Forsberg/Lindros trade did go down in 1997 I wouldn't have been shocked, however what really pushed the Lindros trade in Quebec/Colorado's favor were all the extra pieces they got that went on to help them win a Cup and be contenders for years..... Now what really boggles my mind about that trade is WHY Lindros refused to sign with Quebec given it was clearly obvious that Quebec was going to be a very good team after drafting in the top 5-10 for half a decade, so it wasn't an "if" they would be a contender it was a matter of "when"... Of course recently Lindros went on to say that he didn't want to sign with Quebec because of personal reasons with the individual that owned the team - but I don't buy it. Yea, Lindros didn't want to play for the owner - not for personal reasons - but Quebec wasn't offering him what he demanded, lol.... I just wanted to point out that the Lindros trades was one of those trades where the team that got the "best" player involved didn't win the trade.

Also, not many know this but the Blackhawks were the front runners for Lindros, Bob Pulford had a deal in place that would have sent Steve Larmer, Ed Belfour, Dirk Graham and (2) first round picks to Quebec for Lindros, it was a done deal but it got nixed when Bill Wirtz found out the deal also included 5 million (not the 15 million Philly paid) - but hey - they didn't cal Bill Wirtz "Dollar Bill" for nothing, lol..... And if you really think about it, the Hawks would have won that trade of face value because the biggest name in that deal was Eddie Belfour, and had he been traded Dominick Hasek would have become the Hawks #1, so it would have essentially been Larmer and Graham (2 Hawks ATG BTW) and 2 first round picks for Lindros... IMO, had that trade happened the Hawks would have been pretty good with Lindros, Roenick and Sutter down the middle and Hasek in goal... I mean at that time the Hawks were already a contender, but swap out Graham and Larmer for Lindros and they would have been really-really good and probably won at least a Cup in hindsight....

But back to the Oilers - It would be interesting to see just how much they would be over the salary cap if they played in an era that had one.... As a matter of fact I'm confident that I can figure it out if I do some research, look at point production, salaries and make some adjustments - I believe I could figure that out because I would presume the 80's Oilers in today's cap world would easily be 25+ million over the cap er 27% of the cap or so.... It will be interesting to find out, because with that information I could essentially see what every team from the mid 80's would look like in the salary cap era.

- Nick

[Savard18]

i really enjoy these "trees"
great job, and (hint hint) i look forward to the next one lol

maybe there is a small trade that had a super impact on building a franchise.

Yea, it's Dominik Hasek from Chicago to Buffalo for Christian Ruutu and a 3rd round pick (Eric Daze), lol..

Of course there is the Chicago/Boston deal that sent Phil Esposito to Boston, but that really wasn't a "small trade" but it wasn't as significant at the time as it became.

Another one is Patrick Sharp to the Blackhawks from the Flyers for ... I forgot who but they were no name players that had no NHL impact and were out of the league a couple years later while Sharp was really one of the first core players of the Hawks post cap dynasty... Of course there was Brandon Bochenski for Kris Versteeg who played a significant role in the Hawks 2010 Cup... And it's kind of funny because I remember Bochenski went on a tear for Boston right after the trade - he had like 10 goals in 12 games to close out the 07 season for Boston and Boston fans were calling Bochenski the 2nd coming of Cam Neely, lol....

So yea, there are a few trades out there that were "minor" or small trades that played massive dividends.

[Savard18]

Bumping this one, just wanted to add a little info....

I had been suggesting that the "Reg Thomas trade tree" was the oldest one I could find. It started on August 22nd, 1979, when the Oilers dealt Thomas to the Leafs for a draft pick. That tree eventually joins up with the Messier tree in the 90s, when the Roman Hamrlik deal was made with Tampa Bay.

I'm not sure this one really counts as extending the Messier deal, but until this morning I did not realize that the pick the Oilers used on Messier was not their own.

Dave Semenko was an Oiler in the WHA, but he was reclaimed by the Minnesota North Stars, who owned his NHL rights. The Oilers wanted Semenko back, and traded a 2nd Round pick (42nd overall) plus a 3rd round pick (63rd overall) in 1979, for Semenko & a 3rd round pick (48th overall).

Basically, the North Stars got to move up 6 slots, and added the 63rd pick, in exchange for a player they likely didn't really want, but were entitled to.

The North Stars actually did pretty good with the 42nd pick: Neal Broten. The 63rd was Kevin Maxwell. This is the first time I'd ever heard of Mr. Maxwell (he did play 66 NHL games). Like Broten, he played at the 1980 Olympics..... but he was on Team Canada.

Anyway, that 48th picks is what the Oilers used to take Messier.

That draft was 3 drafts in 1... They dropped the draft age from 20 to 18. So 18, 19 and 20 year olds were all allowed to be drafted in that draft...