What is a rookie card?

[DaveS]

I'm comfortable with that decision being rendered. Does that make Francouz's Compendium an XRC?

That's a whole other debate because technically if the base card weren't digital-only then yes it would be an XRC. However, since the physical copies are all parallels then it technically wouldn't qualify for an XRC designation. It's like the Juniors cards in 94-95 Parkhurst SE. The base versions are XRCs but the Gold parallels are not.

[DaveS]

It's been mentioned a couple times now about UD not considering the OPC to be a rookie card but deciding what is and is not a rookie card isn't something that UD does or likely has any interest in


If determining what is a rookie is not something UD does, why did you ask them?

I didn't. I asked them if he was going to be in either of the remaining 19-20 products.

[30ranfordfan]

There is no rule that says he must have a RC, but the definition of a rookie card makes it impossible for him to have base cards, and no rookie card.

If he gets added to Premier or The Cup, that will make this discussion even better. I would point out in the details of the cards: The Compendium says "Rookie Card" - the OPC doesn't. While the text on the card.... being in a particular subset or not... that isn't important to me - but it does show that Upper Deck does not consider 2020-21 cards for Francouz to be RCs. Is that because of the Compendium, or is it because they've got something else on the way?

Basically it just boils down to whether or not you accept the current definition of a true rookie card. If you accept the industry standard definition then Compendium is not an RC. If the industry standard definition is going to be adjusted then yes, Compendium would most likely end up being his RC. However, as it stands now (and again, assuming he doesn't end up in Premier or The Cup) the 20-21 OPC base card is currently his only qualified RC.
It's been mentioned a couple times now about UD not considering the OPC to be a rookie card but deciding what is and is not a rookie card isn't something that UD does or likely has any interest in. There's literally thousands of examples of rookie cards in base sets, including sets that had rookie subsets too, so are we going to go back and delete the RC designation from those cards too just because UD (or Pinnacle, Pacific, Panini, etc.) decided to produce the card as a base card instead of a rookies subset? The 2005-06 UD Mike Green RC is a perfect example. UD put him in the base set instead of the Young Guns subset so by the logic presented re: Francouz, UD didn't consider it to be a rookie card and therefor the RC designation should be removed, right? No, because it's still a rookie card even if it is just part of the base set.

There's been a lot of good posts here, since my last one. The compendium question is really a good one - assuming that one still cares about the traditional definition of a rookie card (and it's obvious that some do not).

There's two questions here, when it comes to it being a "true" rookie card. The first is a question of distribution, and I would suggest that if collectors don't consider an online only distribution to be "legit", they're going to continue to be more and more dissapointed as time goes on. This is not something that's going away, it's only going to become a bigger part of Upper Deck's business.

The second is a question of base vs parallel. My personal take: Compendium doesn't challenge the definition of what a "rookie card" is, it challenges the definition of what a base card is. Is the base card really a base card, if it only exists as an image on UD ePack?

The argument against a Compendium Blue being a RC is based off of "it's a parallel, so it can't be". I'm quite comfortable calling it a base card though.... since it's the most basic tier of card from that set, that you can physically own.

Quoting myself here, just because I want to clarify what I mean.

Personally, I don't think Upper Deck's opinion is what is important. What "the hobby" (kind of like the infamous "they") thinks is a rookie card *IS* what is important. I've actually liked this thread a lot - because I think discussion around this kind of thing is fun, and it's interesting to hear other people's perspectives (lots of ideas that I don't agree with in here too).

So when I pointed out that UD (at least how it appears) does not consider 2020-21 cards of Francourz to be RCs, it's not because of the lack of 'Rookie' written on the card. The Mike Green example is a great one... somehow he ended up as a base card, instead of a YG. Doesn't change that it's a RC.

Upper Deck does keep pushing the limits of what a RC is. What do we think about trilogy? Card #s 83, 116, and 149 are all Jack Hughes (plus the triple RC #150 has him on it). All four of these cards would fit the definition of "Rookie Card" - but you'll see lots of people (me included) that think it's ridiculous for one player to have multiple RCs in one set. So if they can't have four... which one is the real RC? I would suggest #83 - by virtue of being the first card of Hughes in the set, but I'm not sure you'd be able to get nearly as wide consensus on the other cards NOT being RCs.... where as I think you would have a vast majority (98% or better) suggest that a Canvas YG is NOT a true RC.

They've been doing those tiered Trilogy RCs since 2013-14, I think.

Then there's Exquisite. RC or not a RC? The cards are beautiful, but since there is no such thing as an Exquisite set... I have always said "not a Rookie Card".

Why bring these things up? Because Upper Deck will stick the words "Rookie Card" on ANYTHING they possible can, if they think it will help sell packs. I brought up UD, and their opinion.... not that I have their opinion in writing.... just assuming the obvious: UD probably never considered making Francourz (or Ryan Graves) cards in 2020-21 as "RCs", because they already made those RCs back in 2018 Compendium.

I did like your wording though, referring to "industry standard". It actually makes what you said impossible to argue with, because you're correct. The compendium, by being a parallel, doesn't fit the standard definition.

I guess what I'll leave it at is this: If as a hobby we don't choose to recognize the lowest tier of physical Compendium cards as base cards, then we're missing out. I don't think it's the definition of a rookie card that needs to change, but the definition of a base card.

[DaveS]

@30ranfordfan ya Trilogy rookies create a whole other monster of their own when it comes to the RC discussion lol. And yes my previous points were all based solely on industry standard, not my own personal opinions. Personally, I think the Compendium should be the true RC but as the "rules" stand right now that's not the case. It really doesn't matter in the end though because there's always going to be some who consider it to be his true RC and others who don't. And unless UD puts him into some rookie subsets and not just base cards then the Compendium one will prove to be his most desirable "RC" in the end anyhow.

[30ranfordfan]

@30ranfordfan ya Trilogy rookies create a whole other monster of their own when it comes to the RC discussion lol. And yes my previous points were all based solely on industry standard, not my own personal opinions. Personally, I think the Compendium should be the true RC but as the "rules" stand right now that's not the case. It really doesn't matter in the end though because there's always going to be some who consider it to be his true RC and others who don't. And unless UD puts him into some rookie subsets and not just base cards then the Compendium one will prove to be his most desirable "RC" in the end anyhow.

I think you're right about that. There may be some real strong holdouts, who chase actual pack-pulled cards from 2020-21, because they don't want to recognize digital cards... ones that come from the digital platform exclusively. I'm surprised how little the premium is for things like Rainbow YGs.

I think most will eventually look at those compendium cards, and call them RCs. In the three seasons they made those cards - there's a total of 31 players who got RCs in Compendium, but nothing in any other sets. Francourz is probably the biggest name (so far) with Ryan Graves & Caleb Jones being the only other two of any significance.

I think it's a small enough, and mostly an insignificant, group that not many are really concerned about it. If the Avs had gone on a run to the finals with Francourz in net, that probably would have changed (and Compendium would have been selling like Crazy on ePack)

[piper1]

These are True Rookie Cards:

20/21 MVP Alexander True RC 232
20/21 OPC Alexander True RC 512

Any questions?

[cygnusx1]

These are True Rookie Cards:

20/21 MVP Alexander True RC 232
20/21 OPC Alexander True RC 512

Any questions?

Imagine the confusion if he had been in a prior year's Compendium set

[30ranfordfan]

So I'm bumping this one back up, just to start the fun again, regarding Pavel Francouz.

Just to regurgitate the prior comments / questions:

Since "base" cards in Compendium only exist digitally, should the lowest tiered physical card be considered a "base" card, for the purpose of a RC tag being applied to cards?

It's really only a big deal for 31 players, over three season of Compendium. They had no other NHL cards, thus Compendium is their only "Rookie Card" - though some would not apply that tag to those cards.

Only three players of note are included in that group of 31: Pavel Francouz & Ryan Graves of Colorado, and Caleb Jones of Edmonton.

While Upper Deck's doesn't get to pick what is or is not a rookie card (that's simply a standard, applied to all cards, that's generally agreed upon by collectors) the fact that they included Francouz & Jones in their 2020-21 OPC base set, and NOT as Marquee Rookies, suggests that Upper Deck considered those Compendium cards to be RCs.

Now, with the release of the 2020-21 Upper Deck Series 1 checklist, we see that Francouz has a Young Gun!

I'll be watching the tags on COMC pretty closely with Francouz. They have a pretty close relationship with Upper Deck, as that's their partner for ePack. I suspect that UD does have some influence on how tags are applied. Right now the Francouz Compendium card has a RC tag. The 2020-21 OPC does not. Will the Young Guns? They can't both be RCs.