Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12
  1. #1




    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    4
    SCF Rewards
    204
    Country
    Chicago White Sox Golden State Warriors Pittsburgh Pirates

    Question regarding Beckett, PSA, JSA autograph authentication

    I have read a few stories about collectors obtaining autos TTM and then attempting to have them authenticated by one of the major grading companies, only to have it rejected as a secretarial signature. Has anyone had similar issues? Shaquille O'Neal is one signer that I have seen rejected by PSA, but then on ebay I find O'Neal autos that, in my opinion, don't look as legit. Yet, they are authenticated by PSA?

    Is it worth the time and costs to have TTM autos authenticated?

    I have also read about some of these grading companies catering only to the "big customers" and almost a conspiracy type of scenario where they grade former employee cards 10-9.5 at much higher percentages then is mathematically plausible....any thoughts?

    Thanks

  2. #2




    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    2,558
    SCF Rewards
    14,460
    Country
    Army
    Dallas Cowboys
    See krunchtyme's Items on eBay COMC Cards For Sale

    @eastbaysportsfan

    TTM is always risky. You don't know. In person, at least you know.

    Only you can determine if it is worth it to have TTM autos authenticated. Personally, I can't risk the loss of $$$, but I am not a big autograph collector. Maybe others have a difference of opinion. If you pay $25 per cards and you sell one for $100, you possibly made a profit. You send in 10 cards at $25 each ($250) and 20 come back as crap, you are going to lose money. That is just a mathematics point of view. As for the collector side. I'd rather have an authenticated auto then a BS auto. I have one Drew Brees TTM from around 2006-2007. I will eventually send it in and hope that it passes. If it doesn't....oh well. I had a friend who used JSA for all his autos. Personal preference. I didn't think they were all legit, but I have no fact to base it on. I do have some Bob Lilly autos that were in person from his house (I know a neighbor) and I know he has signed TTM, so I would assume that at least some of them are his. If you transpose that out to others, I will assume they are legit too. I think most people try to do the right thing. Either don't respond or sign it and return it. If you pay a "donation" it damn well better be legit, or I'm writing back!

    As for the conspiracy theory - I use economics as my guide....

    I have seen cards that I don't believe should have been graded a PSA 10 and I have seen some that I thought should be PSA 10. Some large businesses seem to have alot of PSA 10 cards for sale. All that being said, nope. I don't believe the conspiracy theory from the big three (PSA, Beckett and SGC). IF, If anyone truly did this, do you really think some pissed off employee isn't going to drop the dime and ultimately crush the grading company and the seller of the cards? Or some PSA 5 slips through and is a PSA 10 and they they lose credibility. So I ask myself, Self, "Is it worth it to PSA to enter into an agreement with a buddy, who pays $10 bucks a card for grading and then someone finds out and the other 1000's of people who send cards in take their business elsewhere?" NOPE. Too risky to me. Besides, are the grading companies getting a cut depending on grade? NOPE. Two people can only keep a secret if one is dead. I heard that in a movie, recently, LOL.

    Are there mistakes in grading...yes...There is a subjectivity in grading and they are graded by humans. You know, the hung over guy who was at a wedding on Sunday night but showed up to work Monday (or Super Bowl Sunday and showed up to work Monday) or the fight with the wife on the way in, or the boss that is like you need to finish these you are taking too long, etc..etc..

    Personally, I will be really interested in my Jordan submission (which btw has been at PSA since June). I went through over 100 Jordan cards to pick 25 to send in. I KNEW not all 25 were 10's, from my personal review of the cards. I used a large lighted magnifying glass, but I still did not measure the cards - they all looked the same size - they all looked centered (front and back), I didn't see any print dots, checked edges, corners, etc... I know from history, if I take this much time I will get an abnormally high number of 10's (over/near 50%). The rest should be 9's (maybe an 8 or 2 at best). But then again,....I have sent in cards that I am sure were 10's and didn't get a 10, so...? I try to withhold my best thoughts. If I get back an abnormally high number of 10's (say 15-18 of 25), did I make an agreement with PSA for that and what does PSA gain from me? I've had older submissions with no 10's. Back when I didn't take as much time in my selection process.

    I try to send in the best cards I have with the best CHANCE at being a PSA 10. New cards out of the pack - edges, corners and surface damage are all easily possible. Print defects, just look at the 70's and 80's. I bought $20 worth of Dallas Cowboy cards from a box break of 1988 Topps. Brand new box, just opened and........Know how many I thought would get a PSA 10 grade.....over 50 cards.....Yup good guess ZERO. Yes, zero. I also know people send in cards because they look good, but they are really a 7, 8 or 9s. Looks good is not necessarily good enough for a PSA 10.

    So, back to bigger companies sending in cards and getting more 10's - maybe they just have a bigger pool of cards to choose from and employee(s) with time on their hands.

  3. #3




    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    2,558
    SCF Rewards
    14,460
    Country
    Army
    Dallas Cowboys
    See krunchtyme's Items on eBay COMC Cards For Sale

    Sorry for the rant....if I need to clarify anything, hit me back.

  4. #4




    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    4
    SCF Rewards
    204
    Country
    Chicago White Sox Golden State Warriors Pittsburgh Pirates

    @krunchtyme

    Thank you for your input. I agree with your evaluation of getting cards graded and weighing the costs. So you do your own evaluation and submit only ones you feel would be worthy of a "10", regardless of the brand or type of card? Any Jordan cards or specific ones? What are your thoughts on grading serial numbered cards? Obviously it would make no sense to grade a 1/1, but what about the ?/199 or ?/49?

    I have been a card collector since I was a kid in the late 80's, early 90's, but I have never had a card graded before. You are probably right regarding the "conspiracy" theory, and I doubt there would be that level of corruption. I am planning on sending in a few autos to have them authenticated, and like you, I will probably pic a few more cards I feel are close to a 10.

    Is there anything you could advise me about the submission process or anything that I should be aware of as a newbie?

    Thank you!!!!

  5. #5




    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    2,558
    SCF Rewards
    14,460
    Country
    Army
    Dallas Cowboys
    See krunchtyme's Items on eBay COMC Cards For Sale

    @eastbaysportsfan

    I collect Dallas Cowboys cards and Drew Brees as my main collection.

    To answer your first question "So you do your own evaluation"

    Yes, I do my own evaluation. I will look for a thread in this forum and send it to you. It discusses how myself and some others evaluate cards to be sent in. Just me...I still don't get them all correct.

    Second part: "and submit only ones you feel would be worthy of a "10", regardless of the brand or type of card?" "

    YES and NO... for me, I will send in ANY card of the Dallas Cowboys or Drew Brees to get graded (Rookies, commons, refractos, etc..), now there are some caveats to that. If I can buy a PSA 10 Dallas Cowboy card under $10, I usually do it, no matter the player, card type, brand, etc... It would cost me more than that to send it in and get it graded myself and I would have the possibility of a lower grade, so I will buy a PSA 10, instead of sending it in. I you look at my PSA Cowboy collection, you'll see that this holds true. I have over 900 graded cards, mostly Cowboys and 109 incomplete sets (players and team sets). LOL YUP 109 incomplete sets in the registry. Because I won't pay $75 for a PSA 10 of a card that I own that may grade a PSA 10 if I send it in, but I will buy a Cowboy card that is graded. When I send in cards, then I am more methodical and send in cards for a specific set, player, etc...that I believe will get a PSA 10. (See the Sean Lee Rainbow link at the bottom)

    So here are some situational examples:

    1990 Topps Traded Emmitt Smith. I can buy the card ungraded for $12-$15 a card pretty easily. A PSA 10 is selling for over $125 on eBay. So, I could buy (5) =$75, pay to get them graded (About $10 per or $50). So I can take 5 shots at a PSA 10 for $125 or I can buy one for $125. If I get PSA 9's, I can still less them and get close to even if not at even.

    Now this doesn't hold true for all cards. I have bought hundreds of graded Cowboys under $10 a card, actually, under or at $5 a card. I actually bought a Terrence Williams Autographed RC, serial numbered to 5 for under $5. Which is obviously cheaper than me sending them in. At the bottom of this entry is a screen shot of some Terrance Williams cards in my collection. It shows what I paid, the date and a note. It also goes with the next question.

    Question 2 "What are your thoughts on grading serial numbered cards? Obviously it would make no sense to grade a 1/1, but what about the ?/199 or ?/49?"

    As for the 1 of 1 issue. I would send in a 1 of 1 (maybe not the plates per se), but so it would be better protected and then in my set registry. BUT I will not pay a zillion dollars BECAUSE it's graded.

    I LOVE serial numbered cards graded. I know mathematically, not all of them can be a 10. So if I have a 10, I know that my card is rare (or at least rarer). So I have a PSA 10 Williams autograph rookie, which is serial numbered 4 of 5. I know I may have one of, if not the ONLY PSA 10 of those cards. Worst case would be all 5 were PSA 10's, BUT, I have seen one of the other ones and it isn't a PSA 10. LOL I know there could only be mine and POSSIBLY 3 others.

    My Jordan Submission...95% I didn't care the brand, type, etc, I only cared about the player. Now the other 5% of the cards I sent in because of the card and it was a really good card (condition and type). For those, probably not 10s, but still 9s hopefully. If I had some high dollar Jordans laying around, it would depend on the condition and the value in that condition. He is another example.

    I have a 1976 Walter Peyton Rookie. It's off-centered or miscut from the factory, so I was like, whatever. I threw it in a box and left it alone. Now the price of those cards, even in off-condition, has gone pretty high. The key is, I don't really want the card and would prefer to re-invest the money in graded Cowboy's cards, over an off-condition Peyton rookie. I will eventually send this card in and sell it. So, I am sending in the card regardless of condition, totally on Player and Type.

    Now that I have said all that...It's still about the collecting. A lot of people speculate on Rookies or try to grade cards for profit, etc. I love that part of the hobby, but I constantly remind myself, this is my hobby, not my job. I don't try to lose money, but I also know that making money is super hard and not nearly as fun. Could I make money on selling PSA 10's...Yes...BUT, I have a job, maybe when I retire. The time I put into evaluating cards to send in is almost stupid. I bet you I spent an hour a card. No really. I look them over, then I have my son look them over, then I look them over again. Then I change the lighting and look them over again. I look at edges, corners, coloring, centering, backs, gloss (surface)..really. I promise you, if this was an hourly wage, I would lose money. LOL As I have said, grading (no matter how much I want to say is perfect and anyone can do it) has some subjectivity in it. It is not perfect. Anyone can see a rounded corner or a large crease..is it a 4 or a 5? So many factors, play into it, including - individual eye appeal.

    Last question Is there anything you could advise me about the submission process or anything that I should be aware of as a newbie?

    Yup, Send in cards you want in your collection. If you don't want a PSA 7 of (your player here), don't send in a card of (your player here). Or be willing to part with it and try again. I would review PSA's grading guidelines

    LINK: https://www.psacard.com/resources/gradingstandards

    and maybe even jump in on a submission with Joshmets31 here on the forum. I get it is a little more expensive (but after you pay the fee to join the PSA collectors club, shipping, insurance, etc...) it may be worth it not to have to send in minimums. Try a few cards with a community submission and see what your grades are before before jumping in with a larger monetary outlay.

    Second issue. I don't flip flop grading companies. I selected PSA and have stayed with PSA. All cards are not created equal and all grading companies are not created equal. I'm not advocating one over another (I do have a few Beckett graded cards), just suggesting to pick the one you like best for your reasons and go with it. I personally shy away from some of the lower market players, but that is my preference.

    I added a second photo. It's my first PSA submission ever. It shows you what happens when you are a "newbie" and you are not objective (enough) or you are uninformed on what to look for in grading. Look at the grades. I truly believed some of those were going to be "high grade" 8-9-10. I bet you I would be AT LOT closer now if I had the chance to do it again.

    As for questions. I love talking graded cards, so please feel free to ask me anything. I have even looked at scans of cards for people, before they send them in. Not going to do 100, but a few just to open the discussion on possible issues.

    Lastly, some of my cool sets (if you like the Cowboys, LOL):

    1993 Topps Stadium Club Division Winner set https://www.psacard.com/psasetregist...egallery/91914

    2010 Topps Chrome Sean Lee Rookie Rainbow https://www.psacard.com/psasetregist...gallery/121544

    My Dallas Cowboys Rookies Graded https://www.psacard.com/psasetregist.../showcase/9662



    First photo Terrence Williams Photo
    Second Photo My First PSA submission in 2004




  6. #6




    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    890
    SCF Rewards
    1,511
    Country
    Chicago Bears TCU Horned Frogs

    I will agree with almost everything said by Krunch.

    I’ll add some personal perspective on what I do. I have 31 sets in the registry I am working on. Most are all Chicago Bears related.

    My biggest thing is Mike Singletary. There are four different Singletary sets in the registry. One is the Master Set that has about 140 cards from 1983 -1992 (his playing years). Yes of course my goal is to get a 10 when I submit. But I will submit some cards that I know good and well will not grade very high and I keep my fingers crossed it even gets a 7 much less a 10. Sometimes this is due to rarity of the card or low population reports. The card might grade a 7 but maybe in the population report a 7 could have only 2 or 3 graded higher. In fact I got one card I’m waiting on and the highest grade so far in existence is a 5. If I get a 7 on mine I’ll be ecstatic knowing I now own the single highest graded card.

    Another situation for me. I have bought over 100 of the same card in raw form and after I inspect them I’m lucky to find one worthy of submission and sometimes none are. The best one out of the 100 might have the slightest flaw and just maybe I might send that card in....maybe... and hope for the best. If not, it’s back to eBay and hunt for another 100 and see what happens.

    Example #3. I am working on a 1990 BP (British Petroleum) set. This was a game at the gas station where if you match two particular numbers you got free gas from $5 to $1000. These cards came in a game piece that you had to tear away a perforated boarder to reveal the two football cards that where faced inside the game piece. Needless to say these cards are hard to find in good condition. These cards are plagued by centering issues and glue from the assembly of the game piece causing paper loss once you tear them apart. Plus they where passed out by a gas station attendant who didn’t give a crap about keeping a football card in mint condition and 99% of the people who got the cards only cared about getting a discount on their gas and if they didn’t win threw the cards in the trash. Almost no PSA Gem Mints 10’s exist of any card from this set. Anyways..... I have bought tons of these cards in raw form and a couple hundred of the unopened game pieces and opened them my self trying to find the best possible card to submit. I’m about tired of spending money on game pieces and cards and will soon submit the best I have to finish the set regardless of what grade I think they will get.

    Sorry that was long winded. Just insight to how I choose what cards to submit. In the end it’s all personal preference and what your goals are.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  7. #7




    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    4
    SCF Rewards
    204
    Country
    Chicago White Sox Golden State Warriors Pittsburgh Pirates

    @krunchtyme @FireRob

    Thank you both for adding your thoughts to this discussion. I appreciate your input.

    How exactly does the community submissions work? Where do I find more info about that? My guess is that I can probably eyeball a 7-8 but it seems like 9-10 is very specific and can vary depending on the company and individual grader themselves.

    I have spent time looking over a few cards and have a few that I would like to see how they grade. I tend to collect a lot of Bo Jackson, Barry Sanders, and Frank Thomas cards. One thing that pops in my mind is that if one of the autos I have is deemed to be "fake" or non-authentic, then the card basically has ink on it, right? Wouldn't that make the grade extremely low, regardless of the actual condition? I have attached a few pics of a Roger Craig card. It seems to be pretty clean. Can either of you put your thoughts on it? Would this be one you would try to grade? Because of the auto, should it be authenticated and graded?

    Let me know if the pics are okay....took them on my phone.

    Thank you!





  8. #8




    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    2,558
    SCF Rewards
    14,460
    Country
    Army
    Dallas Cowboys
    See krunchtyme's Items on eBay COMC Cards For Sale

    @FireRob

    I don't know the exact card, year, etc. Relatively new though. Picture is kind of dark, scans actually work better. [Hint: If you scan and the card has a white border leave the scanner top open to provide a black background, or use a black background. I do the opposite on black/dark cards to get a white background.]

    Here goes:

    Centering looks good.

    Don't see any print defects (even when enlarged).

    The gloss on the front and back looks good (from the flash spot). To check for yourself, hold the card in the light and try to get the proper angle to see if you see any scratches on the face. When I say "scratches" I don't mean deep groves, I mean light "scuff" marks where two cards possibly rubbed together and scratched the gloss on the card. Think of a large grain of sand being slid across the face of the card. [On newer cards, I feel that this check is the one that gets most cards from a 10 to a 9. I don't have any proof on that, but from looking at cards this is the issue that I personally remove cards from my "possible 10" to "possible 9" pile the most often.]

    I enlarged the image and can't tell corners. Could be because I of the fact I made it bigger, darkness, or a million other things, but I can't gauge the corners or edges.

    Overall eye appeal, the card looks really nice.

    Rob, what do you think?

  9. #9




    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    2,558
    SCF Rewards
    14,460
    Country
    Army
    Dallas Cowboys
    See krunchtyme's Items on eBay COMC Cards For Sale

    @eastbaysportsfan

    Oops, forgot to answer the second part of your question. Right here in this forum. @Joshmets31 hosts PSA submissions almost every month. Last one just closed https://www.sportscardforum.com/thre...PSA-Submission

    I also send in submissions, using the same criteria as Joshmets31, but he does it alot more often and has a lot more people. We also don't send in the same things. I usually stick more to the quarterly specials. https://www.psacard.com/specials

    Contact Joshmets31 here in the forum or by Instant Message and he will get you rolling and provide you all the details.

  10. #10





    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Age
    71
    Posts
    13,209
    SCF Rewards
    130,944
    Transferred Feedback
    Freaks (12)
    Country
    Air Force
    Dallas Cowboys New York Yankees Boston Celtics
    See bakemeister52's Items on eBay My traders on Flickr

    Thanks @krunchtyme and @FireRob for the info. I have never got a card graded myself but I want to try some of the Cowboys cards and would love to do one of my Emmitt inserts! I will PM krunchtyme sometime this week for more direction!

    Bake
    Football: Emmitt Smith and CeeDee Lamb!
    Baseball: Aaron Judge/Adley Rutschman/Derek Jeter/Anthony Volpe!
    Only collect Football/Baseball cards, but I have lots of Basketball/Hockey cards and set to trade for BB and FB!
    Hidden Content

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
SCF Sponsors


About SCF

    Sports Card Forum provides sports and non-sports card collectors a safe place to discuss, buy, sell and trade.

    SCF maintains tools that will allow collectors to manage their collections online, information about what is happening with the hobby, as well as providing robust data to send out for Autographs through the mail.

Follow SCF on