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05-10-2021, 10:58 AM #11Hockey Advisor
It's pretty simple. This is a pretty general forum, and a lot of stuff related to hockey gets posted. You didn't need to open the thread to understand what it was about. If it's a topic you're not interested in reading about, it's really easy to scroll on by.
There isn't much on SCF that gets overly political, but yeah - sometimes topics like these cross the lines between sport & politics. There once was a separate forum for political debate here.... but it was removed years ago.... as it turned into what most comment sections look like on any political topic online: Nobody actually wants to discuss or debate anything, they only want to see people reaffirm what they already believe to be true, and they resort to insults for those that don't agree with them.
Now, based on my experiences - the only racism that is open and prevalent is racism against "white people". And look, it's really unfortunate that I even have to point this out - because it shouldn't even matter - and if I didn't I would be labeled with nonsense but I'm a very-a very-very dark/olive Sicilian (especially in the summer, lol) from Chicago, and everyone that doesn't know me on a personal level presume I'm Hispanic or that I'm some sort of "ethnic minority" that they cant put a finger on, lol (not that my skin tone even matters or should matter to have an opinion and share it). I mean it's not uncommon for Hispanics to come up to me and start speaking Spanish or want me to translate from Spanish to English for them if I'm at a store and they cant speak English, lol. It happens quite a bit and It's very common where I live for that to happen. I do and can speak Spanish tho considering I grew up in a neighborhood that was predominately Latino and currently live in one so I don't and cant blame anyone for making that assumption and it doesn't bother me at all and NO I don't blame it on racism - I mean I would probably make the same innocent assumption too. Anyway I'm also 40-years-old so it's not like I'm wet behind the ears, so I have the lived experience to have a valid opinion. So with that said my opinion on race and racism shouldn't be predicated based on the fact I'm brown - my skin color shouldn't even matter, but unfortunately I have to point out the fact I'm brown before I can get into my substance and argument before I get the whole "you don't even know what it's like to not be white" comments, because yes - yes I absolutely do know what it's like being perceived as "not white".... So now, with that said:
This "racism" crap is a delusion that has been exacerbated and brainwashed into many blank and simple minds. Sorry, but in my 40 years on this Earth all of which spent here in the Chicagoland area - I have NEVER experienced or have seen an actual act of racism - never - nor have I ever met or perceived a casual encounter with someone as racist, besides - why the hell would a racist even live in a highly populated area like the Chicagoland area? I mean white people are the minority in the City Proper and it's pretty much 50/50 outside of the areas where the rich white people have their ivory towers whom scream racism the most.... Right, these alleged "anti-minority racists" don't live in urban or suburban areas presumably considering I have never seen a KKK robe in my life, yet all of these claims of "racism" come from these cities and their metro areas?? what a bunch of nonsense.... So since racism in it's traditional definition doesn't exist on any meaningful level - obviously the definition of racism had to be redefined - I mean no longer was racism defined as an individual whom believes their race is superior to another or all others no, since actual racism is dead "they" (use your imagination on who "they" are without assuming race) had to keep it alive somehow and now racism is defined subjectively in their truth - rather than the truth - so if you believe a situation is racist then it must be because you can never be wrong in this subjective delusion you created for yourself, so your feelings and interpretation - regardless of the lack of information you have on a situation - are reality to you, never mind the facts of a particular situation which clearly prove otherwise based on the objective truth and reality...
I'm very happy to read that Chicago is such a wonderful place. I find it quite remarkable that in your 40 years, you've never seen a single racist act. Honestly man, that blows my mind. I a white man, and about the same age as you (41). I don't live in a city anywhere near the size of Chicago (there's about 130k people here) though I'm only about 60 miles from Toronto. My city, I would bet the population is 75%-80% white, and that number has dropped a lot in the last 20 years. Going to a high School of about 1200 kids, I can't think of 10 that weren't white, and the same age as me. I'm guessing that ratio was (roughly) the same across all ages... I suspect when I went to high school, fewer than 100 of 1200 kids were something other than white. I don't recall ever seeing a time when the few black kids I went to high school with were ever being picked on, for their race or otherwise.
Having said that, I can recall playing minor hockey very well too. In a city like I just described, it probably won't shock you to hear that as a 16 year old I played in a league that had exactly one black player. He was on my team, and he was a pretty good player.... one of the better skaters in the league.... certainly better than me, lol.
I can recall on MANY occasions, he's score a goal and you'd hear someone in the stands (I assume a parent of a player on the opposing team, but I can't be sure of that) yell "YOU SHOULD STICK TO BASKETBALL". (This was a good to line, for some reason?) If you don't understand the implication of that comment, the person yelling it is inferring that because he's black, he should be playing basketball instead of hockey. One is a sport for black kids, one is a sport for white kids. The guy on our team, he never said anything about it. At least not that I heard (he was a good dude, we were friendly enough, but I didn't know him outside of the team. I wouldn't say we were "friends"). You'd also hear lines like that from other players.
I can recall one game, when a player on the other team took it a step farther. Dropped an N-bomb while we were lining up for a faceoff. Didn't yell it, I know that very people on the ice actually heard it. The ref said nothing about it - I have no idea if he heard it or not. I ended up in the penalty box later that shift (I laid what was a very dirty hit. It was some combination of boarding, charging, and elbowing). Long before my penalty was up, everyone on our bench knew what was said. We spent most of the game short handed, everyone kept running the dude on the other team.
Player on our team didn't talk about it much afterwards. When we were back in the dressing room, he just said "thanks guys", and it was left at that.
I've been playing hockey for more than 30 years. I can recall specific details from very games that I ever played in. Quite frankly, I never played at a nearly high enough level to have playing in any sort of "big game", and the nights when I was a big factor in the outcome of the game, they were few and far between. That is one I don't think I'll ever forget, because at 16 years old it shocked me to see how awful people can be to other people, but also you remember that others were more than happy to stick up for their teammate.
I grant you that this happened a long time ago (it was the 1990s) but you're kidding yourself if you believe that same kind of stuff doesn't still go on today. Forget minor hockey. Look at the NHL. I don't have to look it up to recall Wayne Simmons having a bananas thrown at him during a preseason game..... or Joel Ward being bashed online with every racial slur you can image.... because he had the audacity to emilite the Bruins with an OT winner.
The article was only partly about racism too. It was also about mysogyny. If you don't believe that exists in minor hockey, talk to pretty much any girl that has ever played in a league with boys.
Look, I'm getting really sick of everything being blamed on racism. Just because some human is challenged and the challenged happens to be a minority and the challenger happens to be white doesn't mean race has anything to do with it - the same crap happens in reverse all the time but it's ignored and the only time it is recognized it's only when the real racists come out and attack the race of minorities and use racially charged language against them and their race whom don't share their political views.
Whatever, none of this matters and nothing I say matters because if someone believes in this whole SJW insane narrative that "all white people are racist for merely existing" - then they're not going to listen to reason or objective truth that proves they're wrong because they went all in long ago and all they can do is double down on their hand...
Racism is not the cause of all the world's problems. I certainly do not believe that all white people are racists, nor as a white person do I feel the need to apologize for something that my Great-Great-Great-Grandfather may or may not have done. I think a lot of the cries from "SJWs" (as you called them) are ridiculous. That doesn't mean I don't think racism is alive & well, and that it's a problem.
Of course my anecdotal story doesn't mean that racism is wide spread in hockey, or that it ever was. It doesn't mean racists are around every corner, looking to strike. I can come up with other stories from over the years (not hockey related) but there isn't much point.
The fact that you've never seen (or heard?) anyone be racist, I still find that astonishing. I would caution you though, as the fact that you've never experienced racism means about as much as my story.... not much at all.
Statistics, and repetitive behaviors do mean a lot. I laugh at Canada, because up here a lot of people tend to act as though we're so much better than the USA, and that racism isn't a problem here. It is. It may not show it's ugly head quite as bad as it does in the USA, but it's alive and well. I don't care which side of the boarder you live on: If you really believe that racism is no longer a problem in North American society: You're either willfully ignorant, or your reading skills need a little bit of work.
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05-10-2021, 11:13 PM #12OPG Assistant Manager
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05-11-2021, 12:18 PM #13
I was not aware treating people decently and as equals is a "insane social idea" .Trading for Steelers,Penguins,Pirates and Michigan players in Michigan uni
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05-11-2021, 12:31 PM #14
If racism, sexism, and other negative things don't exist, not just in hockey but anywhere, but specifically hockey, why did the organization of USA Hockey, the largest youth hockey organization in the country, make a very specific rule change to acknowledge it? It wasn't made 30 years ago either; it came into effect just 3 or 4 years ago. Any official who hears any negative comments, be it racist, sexist, or slander, immediately calls a match penalty (it used to only be a major and game misconduct; match is worse). If it wasn't a problem, I wouldn't hear from 11 and 12 year olds that a kid from another team called someone on their team a bad name, then have to talk to coaches about it and write up game reports. AND THAT'S IF I DIDN'T EVEN HEAR IT. Think about what I have to do if I DO hear it.
I think you need to take a step back, fully remove your head from your rectum, and think outside the little bubble you keep yourself enclosed in.
Now, as for the article in question and the actual topic of this thread, I'm not entirely surprised. I have played with girls on my teams pretty much my entire playing career (from high school up to adult beer league). Maybe it's the somewhat liberal area that I'm in, or maybe I just didn't hear it, but I haven't noticed much if any misogyny, but I'm also not at all surprised at its prevalence. There was an article just the other day (can't find the link right now) that shows the extreme difference between the women who play in the NWHL and their male counterparts.
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05-11-2021, 03:10 PM #15
Wow. I wasn't even going to open this thread, not sure I am glad I did? I didn't open the article, not denying any of it, just not interested. I can speak from some experiences, I have 3 kids that have all gone through minor sports. 1 boy, 2 girls. Youngest daughter played co-ed hockey for her early years, i say co-ed, it was basically 1 or 2 girls per team with the rest all boys. She did fine, she stood up for herself, played tough, and was well accepted by her team mates. Where I found indifference was with how coaches and evaluators treated or perceived her. I took part in evaluations every year, for all sports, and all 3 kids. Didn't want to be one of those parents that ™™™™™ed about something as evaluations always leave someone in the wrong level. Not that I ™™™™™ed about where my kids ended up, but I did speak to other parents to tell them if they had a problem with it - then volunteer and be part of the process. Anyway, I digress.
Back to evaluations, being with the group of evaluators, the girls were treated different, there would simply be no way a girl would make a top 1 or 2 tier despite how well she skated or played. When it came time for her to become a goalie, we mutually moved from hockey to ringette. I say mutual as we had long discussions with her it was her decision and no one else's. Her older sister played ringette, so she knew both sports and was really torn. Deep down, I knew as a girl goalie, she would end up in the basement of divisions despite how well she played. Not having anything against lower divisions, but it would not challenge her and she would not develop. Girls hockey was not one of the choices as were simply not exposed to it to know.
Moving on to some the treatment of other players, name calling, and what not on the ice. It happened, not a lot, but it happened. Happened with a racial slur or a homophobic slur on the ice, very, very seldom, but the kids would say something was said, and most of the time it was mentioned to a coach who would actually talk to the other coach. Later on there were suspensions handed out for any kind of slur on the ice, was the proper way to deal with it, but I can say in 10+ seasons, it happened I think twice. I talked to my kids, to ensure they understood it, and that is was simply wrong.
There was bullying, nothing outrageous or dangerous, more teasing, but it existed. It always came down to just one or two players on a team, and required discussions with our kids on how to handle it, who to talk to, what to do.
But, all of the above - it happened in hockey, ringette, baseball, lacrosse, soccer, field hockey, etc. My kids seem to try every sport out there as evidenced by the amount of sports gear in my garage! It didn't matter if it was catty sh*t amongst girls, or dumb stuff with the boys, or something a boy said to a girl or girl said or did to a boy. I can say the racial or homophobic content was the least of concern, seldom happened, and I think demonstrates what our kids are learning as they are taught to treat others with respect and dignity - and to leave the intolerance and indifference out of it. Our kids are better than we were, and my generation is better than my parents were, who were better than their parents. It takes time and teaching, and to learn from our past - and slowly we are making things better. Won't happen overnight, but it is happening.
We need our kids out doing all activities whether hockey or dance, flute or baseball.
What a crazy world - bring on the Stanley Cup!
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05-11-2021, 03:31 PM #16
scarrman:
Doesn't matter if you opened it or not. I find that opinions are like A&sho&*(.
Everybody has one.
I just think these among us that cannot vice their opinion in a respectable manner should keep it to themselves
Cheers all my SCF pals
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Originally Posted by Savard18 
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