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  1. #1

    Where can I find Champs mini auto print runs.

    I just want to know if anyone has a link to where I can find Champs mini auto print runs? I have a Jordan Staal Red Back and a Blue Back (incoming) and want to know what the print run on these things are.

    I picked both of them up for almost nothing. I have heard the red back is number to 20 or less. (seem to good to be true) What would the blue back print run be?

    Please help! (I don't want guess-timations)

    Thanks in advance

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  3. #2
    I believe it's posted on the Upper Deck Facebook page
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  4. #3

  5. #4
    i thought they said on there they werent releasing the print runs on them because they didnt want to hurt the value of the normal ones..

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Cerialthriller View Post
    i thought they said on there they werent releasing the print runs on them because they didnt want to hurt the value of the normal ones..
    Thats basically what they said, but by calling them when the cards first released we were able to assertain no red back had a print run higher than 17, and no blue back had a print run higher than 9.

    Frankly, not releasing print runs is a self-fulfilling prophecy. it causes card values to go down, just not the ones they think theyre protecting.

    The red backs should NOT sell for the same price as black backs. Especially when the shortest printed Black backs other than Tiger Woods were crosby and Gretzky, and those were in the /50 range.

  7. #6
    yeah and I personally dont care if the back of the card is a different color.. if there was a serial number stamped on the front it would be nice..

  8. #7
    See that's one of the problems that I've been talking to Chris Carlin about.

    NO CARDS SHOULD EVER BE SERIAL NUMBERED, and here's why:

    1. Serial #ing costs money. Money that could be spent on other parts of the process, like better card stock or packaging.

    2. It's unneccesary. ITG proves that cards don't need serial numbered because they tell you the exact print run of short printed cards, right on the box. No one has a problem knowing what # their cards are out of.

    3. It inhibits CS replacements for bad cards. When a card has a serial #, it is VERY rarely replaced "same for same" (meaning you get another copy of the card you sent"). How many times do we hear that we can't get a new copy of a damaged card, because they don't stock replacements for serial numbered cards?

    4. It is an additional part of the printing process in which cards can be damaged. I have seen plenty of cards since serial #ing starts that have mis-stamped, mis-numbered, or damaged due to the stamping press.

    UD did a great thing by doing the alternate colored backs, theyre really cool. But they also need to release the print runs of said backs.



    Quote Originally Posted by Cerialthriller View Post
    yeah and I personally dont care if the back of the card is a different color.. if there was a serial number stamped on the front it would be nice..

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Nashrules View Post
    See that's one of the problems that I've been talking to Chris Carlin about.

    NO CARDS SHOULD EVER BE SERIAL NUMBERED, and here's why:

    1. Serial #ing costs money. Money that could be spent on other parts of the process, like better card stock or packaging.

    2. It's unneccesary. ITG proves that cards don't need serial numbered because they tell you the exact print run of short printed cards, right on the box. No one has a problem knowing what # their cards are out of.

    3. It inhibits CS replacements for bad cards. When a card has a serial #, it is VERY rarely replaced "same for same" (meaning you get another copy of the card you sent"). How many times do we hear that we can't get a new copy of a damaged card, because they don't stock replacements for serial numbered cards?

    4. It is an additional part of the printing process in which cards can be damaged. I have seen plenty of cards since serial #ing starts that have mis-stamped, mis-numbered, or damaged due to the stamping press.

    UD did a great thing by doing the alternate colored backs, theyre really cool. But they also need to release the print runs of said backs.
    I respectfully disagree completely with your opinion on serial numbering. I think lack of serial numbering has resulted in dramatically lower secondary market prices on ITG cards in the past. We all know about the licensing issue, but when you are at a show, and you are looking at a card from a $500/pack product (for example, Superlative), and you need to go on ITGs website to know whether that Bleu Blanc Rouge "red parallel" card is one of the ones that is /19, /9, /5, or a 1/1 it makes it less likely that you will pay top dollar for it.

    Serial numbering is one of the few things Upper Deck has pretty consistently gotten right, with the exception of the victory blacks, and now the champs minis.

    Given that card companies have been caught before in lawsuits where they have been shown to have released more than the announced print run of short printed cards, the hobby has little trust left for them to keep their word. Serial numbering keeps them honest. If you start seeing more than one card with the same serial number, you may actually have legal recourse. With unannounced, or suggested low print runs, you have none.

    I agree that it is an added expense, but with the existing quality of the cards being produced, I think that expense is best applied to serial numbering.

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by bidds55 View Post
    I respectfully disagree completely with your opinion on serial numbering. I think lack of serial numbering has resulted in dramatically lower secondary market prices on ITG cards in the past. We all know about the licensing issue, but when you are at a show, and you are looking at a card from a $500/pack product (for example, Superlative), and you need to go on ITGs website to know whether that Bleu Blanc Rouge "red parallel" card is one of the ones that is /19, /9, /5, or a 1/1 it makes it less likely that you will pay top dollar for it.

    Serial numbering is one of the few things Upper Deck has pretty consistently gotten right, with the exception of the victory blacks, and now the champs minis.

    Given that card companies have been caught before in lawsuits where they have been shown to have released more than the announced print run of short printed cards, the hobby has little trust left for them to keep their word. Serial numbering keeps them honest. If you start seeing more than one card with the same serial number, you may actually have legal recourse. With unannounced, or suggested low print runs, you have none.

    I agree that it is an added expense, but with the existing quality of the cards being produced, I think that expense is best applied to serial numbering.
    I agree with Bidds55 100 percent on the serial number. As it was the Mirror Gold I believe that started it all. As a guy had collected more Jagrs that the suppose (no more than x amount produced). Think he won six digit's after it was all said and done.

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  11. #10
    True, with the price of cards nowadays, almost all cards should be #ed. (with exceptions to low end base)

    If my Jordan Staal Red Back and Blue Back Champs auto's (that are apparently extremely short printed) were numbered to what I heard they are, I probably would have paid more than the $15.29 for the both of them. I'm not complaing though...lol.

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