Results 41 to 50 of 94
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07-14-2009, 05:18 PM #41
I don't think aspects aside from set-building should be thrown out from consideration as foundations though. GUs and Autos are great innovations, and add variety to the hobby. The concept of player and team collecting is also great.
I think the thing you're arguing is what I kind of hinted at - that the value-based nature of the industry, and not necessarily the developments of different types of collecting, has skewed the perceptions of the hobby.
To add, the integrity/purity of the enjoyment of a hobby is increasing improbable today. A business can be made of any hobby, as long as it is incorporated and oriented towards the monetary side of it. Not that that's a bad thing, but it causes many people to carry over a business attitude into the hobby side of it.
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07-14-2009, 05:44 PM #42
I believe that within the retail stores it is a first come first serve mentality,pack searching is something that has been going on in our hobby for sometime now.Any collector who has bought a hobby box of cards can tell which packs contain the game-used cards,and to think you wouldn't use that knowledge to your advantage is not being realistic.I remember years ago score hockey had the dream team insert in the same place in every box that had one as it was a 1 in 2 boxes insert,knowing that it would be rather foolish to buy any other packs from the box if you could just see a freshly opened box and get the insert in a one pack purchase.What bothers me about packsearchers is not their packsearching but the ruining of the packs they search,packsearching isn't good nor bad for the hobby in my eyes as we all know it happens.I don't pack search but any collector who says he wouldn't take a thick pack over a thin pack isn't being truthful,enough of my rambling.Take care Steve
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07-14-2009, 05:53 PM #43
I'm not really saying they should be thrown out. All Im saying is that when my grandfather collected cards back in the 40s and 50s, there were no auto cards unless you took them to the game and got them auto'd yourself. I just feel like people have forgotten about how it started and are mostly in it for money, which is the true cause of pack searching. I don't even remember auto or gu cards back in the early 90s when I was a kid. I just feel like the base card is valueless now, monetarily and sentimentally. I still get escited when I find a base card of my favorite player! It, to me, is one of the greatest feelings in the world when I pull a worthless Mat Gamel base that no one on the planet could care less about.
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07-14-2009, 05:54 PM #44
I wouldn't take a thick pack over a thin. Simply because of the sheer number of GU fillers in singles now.
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07-14-2009, 07:10 PM #45
The thing is, not every retail pack brand uses fillers/dummy cards. So the perception still has some truth to it for certain brands in terms of taking the thick pack. Moreover, the fillers only drive the development of even more specific and sophisticated searching techniques.
And obviously, in most hobby pack brands the thicker and/or more rigid packs almost always mean a hit. Just common sense really.
On your other note, I still enjoy finding a base/insert/etc of my players or team guys. The appreciation can still be there for base/etc while still valuing (monetarily and emotionally) the GUs and Autos - the value added to memorabilia cards (in buying/selling as well as trading) is a reality of the business of the hobby. I don't think it is necessarily wrong to adopt some aspects of a business attitude for the trading collector - it just has to be balanced, or tempered, by the enjoyment of simply collecting.
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07-14-2009, 07:55 PM #46
I do enjoy an auto. I wish that autos weren't available in such high
quantity though. Quality beats quantity by a mile here. I am tired of seeing autos out of 1000. I feel like that does deplete values of the cards. Not only that, but because so many more are available, I feel prices are higher. Companies are paying these players a lot of money. That rises the price of cards. Therefor more people pack search to get their moneys worth. That also leads to people stealing, which once again raises prices
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07-14-2009, 08:16 PM #47
Wonder how people pack search them now?
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07-14-2009, 08:35 PM #48
Flawed rules for Baseball then but then everyone could've done it and it wouldn't be against the rules so A-Rod had no advantage over anyone especially considering over 100 players tested positive in the secret testing. Baseball and the whole drug use thing has really tarnished there reputation.
As for giving the $20 back honestly stop judging others man. Seriously you don't know me so I don't have to defend myself to you or anyone but yeah buddy I'd give the $20 back. I have integrity, values, and morals. If I didn't I would just buy packs with all hits but as I stated I've bought multiple packs knowing some would be all base but also knowing I'd get at least 1 hit when I could've just walked with the 1 pack that I KNEW had the hit! I've also bought packs out of boxes I knew where already pack searched from the local store I buy from knowing the good hits are already gone. Maybe I'm a complete idiot for doing so when I know I won't get the big hit but just minor hits of a pack of Trilogy which costs $25 CDN? Maybe I actually do care about the hobby and am NOT in it for the money aspect! My PC collection has cost thousands of bucks just for singles. I bust tonnes of boxes and packs. I've only resold cards for maybe a thousand or two thousand max. I'm only in the hockey section and you don't know me at all buddy.
Reoddai's examples aren't the same sir because only the top people can do insider trading, only a few people can fix a fight, and only a few people can fix the lottery. EVERYONE can pack search. Also I don't pack search retail to take hits away from kids I pack search hobby packs.
UD tries to discourage pack searching by making it harder but they can't make it impossible. Always going to be problems with a few sets that make it easy to search them. Actually would hurt the stores the most because as soon as the packs have been pack searched the remaining packs wouldn't sell. So it is up to individual stores to stop it. If they don't they don't.
I'm not in it for myself but what I'm going to drop $100 on packs and gets crappy inserts and base instead of hits??? Or if I'm going to spend $100 should I just get a box and gamble? Pretty much sports card pack and box buying has became a form of gambling addiction for some people. I'm sure you'd be happy getting a Jared Boll Rookie Auto and Daniel Carcillo Rookie Auto and a no name SOTT for your 3 autos in a $130 CDN box of 07/08 SPA but I'm not. Rather do better than that.
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07-14-2009, 09:13 PM #49
As I have said before, people overly magnify the consequences of trivial actions when it comes to "their hobby."
Companies putting fillers in packs means they are all of a sudden legitimate references of what is right and wrong in the hobby? They will say it is so people don't search, which is partially true at least for the cameras, but they are doing it to sell more product. The cost of the fillers is minimal as such.
I don't care what other people, in general and in this hobby, think of my morals or integrity. My morals work for me - if you want to accuse me of not "taking others into consideration" in the hobby then go ahead. Those types of arguments go to the extreme as to suggest that self-interest should go completely out the window, which is unrealistic. The "morals" which supposedly pertain to the hobby are constructed to fit the perception that people should act for the good of the hobby. In reality, all that would do is assure self-interest, which makes such aforementioned arguments ironic.
The point is, acting in one's self-interest in this hobby is not evil as many seem to suggest; rather, it is natural. When such actions impinge upon the conditions which are able to be directly affected by others' self-interests, which necessarily do not include instances of luck/odds/etc, then such actions should be considered deleterious.
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07-14-2009, 09:27 PM #50
Actually, not EVERYONE can pack search. As with all the examples you stated, people need to have the knowledge how to do something, the ability and finally, be in a position to do it. To use your insider trading as an example, someone has to be an executive, have knowledge of how to exploit the system, the money to own the shares and then short-sell them, etc. etc., Well, to be a pack searcher, you have to have money to buy enough wax to notice the difference, have enough money to buy the materials needed to weigh the packs, know which packs can be searched, where to find places that let you search peacefully, etc.
Kids, or new comers to the hobby don't necessarily know how to pack search. Not everyone has the ability to do this. Just look at the earlier posts were it was admitted that the pack searcher only gets inserts rather than anything better.
What you're saying is that you think its easier for people to become pack searchers, than the other crimes you mention. Don't mistake that for everyone being able to actually pack search.
While you may not pack search with the express purpose of taking away the hits from kids, If you do pack search and a kid comes along and buys packs from a searched area... well you took the hit. They buy the pack. You may not be doing it in their face, but the deed was done. Like I said earlier, you may feel that "no one" is hurt, but its only because you don't know who's being affected, so that helps you to rationalize the decision and make it okay. But the truth is that you ARE still affecting someone.
There are also programs run on "the honor system". If you're not familiar with it, the system is run based on people what they are asked to do without being policed. For example, the GO train in the greater metropolitan area of Toroto is setup on the honor system. You are expected to buy a ticket, and cancel it when you get on the train. Sometimes there are operators who check for tickets, and sometimes there aren't. If they find you without a ticket, you get fined, but for the most part they trust that the users of the system will buy and cancel their tickets. After-all, if they don't then the GO either doesn't make enough money and has to fold and everyone loses, or they have to increase ticket prices and add more personnel to police the area.
Pack searchers are those who ride the train for free. They want everything, but aren't willing to pay the costs associated with the product.
If you pack search, then you are in it for yourself. You're certainly not in it for the retailer who's left with virtually worthless cards (you even said yourself that its not worth it when the hits are bad). You're also not in it for the next person to buy the packs since they're paying full price for again, essentially nothing.
If pack searchers aren't looking out for number 1, then who the heck are they looking out for?
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Originally Posted by jwmaryvillecrg 
