Is Crosby one of the best players ever?

[Sidthekidc87]

If you can't tell from my username, Im a crosby fan

While I am a die hard flyers fan, I always rooted for Crosby out the gate because I said to myself "heres a guy who could genuinely live up to the hype of being "The next one".

It saddens me now that there is some talk about Crosby's career being over to due to that concussion.

But then I thought: if he is forced to retire....so what?

Seriously - he won the stanley cup, he won a gold medal, he's a statistical powerhouse, he has a closet full of trophies, and he scored the goal of the decade in the olympics.

Hes literally done....everything

Im not just being biased here, but if I had to rank him today he'd be top 5 of all time, no question. Right behind Gretzky Mario and I have him penciled in above or behind Orr.

It may sound silly, but in all honestly, what hasn't he done? What can anyone say about Crosby from an accomplishment perspective.

While playing he is in a completely different class than anyone, hands down. A different planet...a different galaxy.

Whats your opinion on him

[bdiam]

Normally I don't weigh-in on these posts but....

"Right behind Gretzky Mario and I have him penciled in above or behind Orr"

The only people that don't rank Bobby Orr a unanimous #1, are people that never got to seem him play. Obviously, with cable and the internet today, highlights of anyone in today's game can be seen in great lengths. Spend 20-minutes, go to youtube, type-in Bobby Orr and watch him utterly "out-class" fellow HOF's with great ease. Ever seen one player single-handidly kill 1:47 of a 2:00 minute penalty? When players like Howe, Hull, Robinson, Lafleur, Clarke and countless others have said that "he belonged in a different league", chances are that he was pretty good.

As for Crosby, like with Gretzky, they both would still have been stars in the game but would not have accomplished half of what they did, had they been playing in the 1960's-70's.

Not sure if we're allowed links in a post(?) but.......

[NyFanCam01]

Simple answer.

YES!

[Sidthekidc87]

bdiam - I agree Orr is one of the greatest, but I have trouble putting him above Gretzky and Mario. I mean Gretzky is like Jordan - unanimous number 1. Orr was amazing - trust me, Ive worked as a history appraiser and studied Orr for a while, mainly because his stuff brings in tremendous amounts of money

But when we talk about the greatest of all time, you HAVE to consider how iconic the player is.

You said it yourself - Orr is not as watched or talked about as Gretzky, mario, and crosby - but when you are ranking players on an all time greats list, you need to consider that point.

Lets face it - Lebron James will go down as one of the greatest ever not just because of his game, but because his publicity and his social prowess.

James is like Crosby and Gretzky, Tim Duncan is more like Orr. Tim Duncan by many is considered a top 5 player of ALL TIME, which baffles me sometimes, purely because of his fundamentals and dominance over a long period of time. But Duncan will never be able to stand next to Jordan, or James, or Shaq, because like Orr, he lacked that social prowess - people don't just say, "oohhhh Duncan is in interview, I need to watch."

[bdiam]

We could go back and fourth with this for weeks but one of the most amazing stats that I ever saw, was that Orr's career +/- was """3x""" better then Gretzky's. Orr was abused, to the point where he played half of his career on one leg. Gretzky was hit 2-3 times in a 10-year span and usually that was by one player - Neal Sheehy.

As far as Orr "not being as watched", that was reference to the fact that their wasn't as much "availability" to hockey games on your TV back in the 60's and 70's, as what you can watch today.

Hockey HOF's and historians will tell you that Orr "revolutionized" the way the game was played and changed it forever - does anyone ever say that about Gretzky? Gretzky was a great player and did more outside the game (especially selling the game in the West) but like I said, go to youtube and watch clips of Orr skating up and down the ice - usually through the entire other team.

A defenseman (who was excellent defensively) who led the league in scoring? That's like having a RB in football lead the league in rushing and receiving yards.

I don't want to hijack the Crosby part of the thread but one can't over-look what some of the best in the league's history have said.....


"I would say I've never seen a guy who did as much offensively and
defensively as much as that young man did."
-Gordie Howe - "Mr. Hockey"

"I've seen all the greats since the 1920's, and I've never seen a player
with the skills of Orr." Clarence Campbell,
Former NHL President

"Too bad they don't have another league for him to go to. He's too good
for the NHL." -Bobby Clarke, HOF Flyer



"There's stars, superstars, and then there's Bobby Orr."
-Serge Savard, HOF defenseman


"You can say about each of the great players: He's a good skater, or a
good stickhandler, or he has a great shot, but something is always
missing. Bobby Orr has it all. He is the best I've seen -- ever!"
- Jacques Plante, HOF Goalie

[RGM81]

While I'm not one to do rankings, I think that in the nebulous idea that is "one of the best ever" I have no problem saying "yes" in response to this question. For the short time that we've been fortunate enough to see him enter the NHL, he has been dominant in a fashion we haven't seen a player take over in a long time. If he resumes his career and can continue at the same pace, we'll be able to start the discussion about putting him up there with Gretzky, Lemieux, The Rocket, and Howe. If he is forced to retire we'll have to project how great he could have been much like we do with Orr.

[OBOMBA]

ok this is the thing people dont understand when comparing gretzky and crosby

when gretzky played the game he played like this, take any chance to cheat up ice and never play D and NEVER GET HIT . he also played with immense stars.

another thing the defensemen in gretzkys era were allowed to be that type of offensive presence every shift like hously, orr, coffey.

today that isnt taught by coaches nor really allowed. today its win with a balance of scoring and defence. in gretzkys time it was score as much as possible.

crosby is more talented that isnt debatable.


but this is the thing, crosby didnt play the game like ovechkin or gretzky. he always played team first. never cheat up ice or be flashy etc.etc...... until that recent 25 game tear.


the sad thing is that people are gonna look at trophies when comparing greats at the Gretzky lemieux and orr level.

to be honest yzerman could have been in that group.

and another thing people never consider is that crosby has been playing with bums .


i think if crosby decides to win 5 art rosses then he can be up there .

[westaylor]

This is an insane question. The answer is a huge NO. If he is done today he wont be one of the best ever. He will always be a what if. He will never be a Rocket Richard, Gretzky, Mario, or Orr. He will be a Hall of Famer, and he should be, but you cant win just one cup and be called best ever. You cant even tell me he is better than Bobby Hull right now.

[centrehice]

Orr changed the way the game was played. No other player has done that in the game's history.

If you weren't alive to see it, then I feel for you because when he changed the game, it was as if time stood still.

I still remember standing in front of the Black and White Zenith as a 11 year old and saying to my Dad......"What Orr just did, Is that legal?"

[Sidthekidc87]

Westaylor - why is it so ridiculous

I hate this modern player persona that just because a player is playing in our time, he can't be considered an all time great.

What is it? Are people just afraid to let a modern player in with the legends.

I can understand you saying No, but a huge no? Come on

Any hockey fan knows how dominant crosby is when he is on the ice healthy - HANDS DOWN better than Rocket Richard. Put those two on the ice in their primes and its no contest, crosby takes it.

And Crosby is only 24, and we don't know, he may not even have reached his prime.

He's won a stanley cup, he's won titles, won a gold medal, got the goal of the decade....he is AS WORTHY as at least BEING CONSIDERED as any guy you listed.

Your focused on amount of cups? Why....

Best ever is just as much about individualism and team accomplishments. To penalize a player for not winning multiple championships, after he already won one, is silly.

Look at the talent, look at the sheer dominance, look at his playmaking skills, and look at him weave through the best defenses single handedly - to say that its a "huge no", imo is blasphemous.