Another Question/Observation about History of Hockey

[centrehice]

I agree with a lot of what you said but why slam Panini for even less legitimate reasons. It kind of contradicts your post.


Basic economics


I hope you're exagerrating


It's a forum, people have a right to criticize a product and form an opinion even if they haven't busted it themselves.

/\ Arrow > Target


It's called value. There has to be some perception of value. When you buy a Sony 60 Inch Bravia HD, you pay for what you get - Picture quality and dependability. When you buy the Candle 60 Inch HD, you pay much less, but you also sacrifice quality for price, but the result is reflected in price.

Remember, that when you are purchasing a box of 4 cards in nature for say $275.000, you expect the consistency to at least translate to some intrinsic monetary value. You can still manufacture a product that hits the median mark of constancy, but you cannot have a $4,000.00 dollar card in one box without the next box having at least a $100.00 card.

Pulling a Benoit Hogue Rookie in a box, then having an Ian Turnbull Jersey as the best card among the last 3 in the box is just not kosher when the guy next you pulls a Mikita Rookie and a Tim Horton patch in his box, paying the same price.

There is not monetary median consistency. You still have to feel that you are getting something other than 4 cards of Plumbers.

[DeanCrandall]

1 autograph PSA/DNA - u can say what u want about the crop of players, but people are loving these from the ebay world, especially when people like Anders Kallur (who the?) are going for 12.50$ + ship. Lets call the average here about 12$ (look at ebay completed listings to see why)

Hey I bought that :) And to explain why, I collect Islander autos. There has never been an Anders Kallur card auto in any checklist. There are 4 issued with of course mine purchased and another bidding on ebay right now for $13 plus (not me). Now why Kallur, was on all four stanley cup teams and was one of the two first Europeans to win the Stanley Cup, the other teammate Stefan Persson (also by the way in this ITG History signed set with no prior autos. Six Persson cards I want one, who has one for $15 :)

[centrehice]

Right now the History of Hockey is the flavour of the month. Let's revisit this again next year and see if a Darren Pang Rookie in a hard case is fetching anything more than $3.00, which is $1.00 more than the $2.00 actual BV.

In real terms, I can buy a Darren Pang OPC Rookie today for Two-Bits, why would I pay over $10.00?


BTW: There is already an Authentic HOH OPC Darren Pang Rookie on COMC. The seller wants $32.00. LOOOOOL

Who on this Earth is dumber than a Human? A turkey or a sheep would never pay $32.00 for a $2.00 card that can be had for .25 cents.

[andrewconnors9]

see, Dean says it all, some people are going to be able to scoop up some autos they never thought were possible. I know Sean (ranford30) is enjoying this as well with his Edmonton Auto's PC, im sure theres a few he can knock off the list from HoH

[MatsSundin13Rocks]

see, Dean says it all, some people are going to be able to scoop up some autos they never thought were possible. I know Sean (ranford30) is enjoying this as well with his Edmonton Auto's PC, im sure theres a few he can knock off the list from HoH

This! +1 Thumb ups!

[30ranfordfan]

There's a few threads out there, talking about HoH, and I think this one is as good as any to chime in with my thoughts.


When I heard about this product initially, I thought it was a cool idea - but something that would (obviously) not be for everyone. Wasn't sure what the price point would be.... and figured it'd be a little too high for what they'd be able to put in it.

When the checklist hit.... I can't say that I was dissapointed at all. There are a TON of "lesser names" in there, but that's what I expected. There's also a healthy dose of bigger names, and some absolutley insane cards that you've got a chance to pull.


That's the thing. In order for ITG to be able to put a handful of Gretzky RCs, a Vezina RC, etc in there - they've got to drop a few Darren Pangs on us too. That's the only way this product is going to work from a "cost of doing business" aspect. That isn't really any different from any high end product. If you buy 2011-12 The Cup, you've got a shot at names like Gretzky & Orr, RNH, Sheilds, etc - but you may also end up with a stack of cards that will net you $10 each.


I think some of the other points raised here are very good ones. Does slabbing a late-80s OPC RC, something you'd find in a $1 bin, and repackaging it for this set make it worth $15-$20 ?? I don't know. It appears that for some of the cards, the answer is 'yes' (based on how they've been selling on the bay) but we already knew that anyway. Getting your cards graded / slabbed by Beckett or PSA has made the value jump.... and while this isn't the same thing (these are being slabbed for HoH, and listed as authentic) its similar. Should we place more of a value on a high graded card, rather than an HoH Authentic card? Maybe. I never placed much of a value on graded cards....... so I guess that's up to the individual collector.


As for the autographs, like the rookies, this is very close to what I expected. There are some huge names available to be pulled, but there are also a lot of players that most of us would call 'scrubs' (again, how does this differ from most products?). There are a TON of guys in there that have never had a certified autograph though. See Dean's post. This is giving collectors like him a chance to get signed cards from players that are likely very difficult to find.

Andrew's assumption about me is sort of correct. There are quite a few guys on this checklist that are on my "all-time Oilers" checklist, and have never has a certified autograph. Rick Chartraw, Doug Smith, Ron Chipperfield, just to name a few. If this were two years ago.... I'd be all over this stuff. Unfortunatly (or fortunatly, depending on how you want to look at it) there isn't anyone on this checklist that I haven't already picked up though. (Looking at the content, and the quality of the signatures, I suspect that the source of a lot of the ones I've added in the last couple of years may be the same source that Dr. Price had for many of these).

The one auto in the product that I'd really like to get my hands on is actually from the buybacks. Peter White BAP Auto. It's an SSP in the set, and I've never been able to get ahold of the raw card (he's pictured as a Flyer, but is also a former Oiler. One of the few former Oilers with a certified auto, that I only have an IP of).

The painting cards look fantastic. Not going to get into a big rant about them - as it seem that most people agree.



Anyway, as I always think with most products: "To each his own". If this is something you like, go for it. If you don't like the product.... don't buy it. I'm doing a group break in the very near future, and looking forward to it. I'll admit though - that's probably the only break of HoH I'm going to do. It's a neat enough idea that I'd like to do the group break (4 ppl splitting a 4 box case) but probably won't keep busting it they way I have 2011-12 BTP, or Upper Deck Series 1.

[Bimola]

That's the thing. In order for ITG to be able to put a handful of Gretzky RCs, a Vezina RC, etc in there - they've got to drop a few Darren Pangs on us too. That's the only way this product is going to work from a "cost of doing business" aspect. That isn't really any different from any high end product. If you buy 2011-12 The Cup, you've got a shot at names like Gretzky & Orr, RNH, Sheilds, etc - but you may also end up with a stack of cards that will net you $10 each.

Just a quick added note on this point and more specifically to address the comparisons of HOH breaks to those of the Cup etc with respect to value.

Take 2005-06 with the big Cup 'hit' being Crosby (worth whatever thousands of dollars). With respect to input costs, Upper Deck would have had to pay Sydney for the auto (lets say $100 per card), the patch swatch (let's say $50), the card manufacturing cost/ marketing/ packaging etc. plus profit. This completed card's full value is determined not by Upper Decks input costs, but by collector demand for that card AFTER market. Total cost for that card to Upper Deck wouldn't be more than $250 by my guess.

Let's now look at HOH where ITG would have purchased they're rookie card inclusions on the open market ie: the cost of creating the Vezina rookie card would have been (let's say $3000 for the raw card), Beckett slabbing, marketing/ packaging and profit. Do this same cost analysis for EVERY rookie card and you can see what HOH is TRULY offering the collector. No waiting around to see if your rookie player will actually play in the NHL, have a decent a career, make the Hall of Fame and even live a respectable life. All of these points will appreciate a 'new' rookies value down the road (not to mention future collector demand). From the second you open a box of HOH you will have the chance to own a PROVEN high valued rookie card that has its value firmly set from years of open market transactions. For me, this is vastly superior to rolling the rookie dice every time the Cup comes out with a new product.

Yes, each collector is different and that's what makes this hobby so great. For me, HOH achieved it's goal and provided me with great cards from 4 different hobby corners while focusing on my collector sweet spot - established and proven stars and HOFers. No, not every one gets the Orr or Howe (my case gave me 4 RC valuing about $20 bucks collectively) but, the real value of the high end cards is well established. Something I take more comfort in than with the current rookie crops and with this in mind, I would have no trouble buying another case vs spending money on current rookie products.

Sorry for the rant - guess it was longer than I thought :)