What do you think the legacy of National Treasures will be?

[sedinfan]

With the release of National Treasures about a week away, I'm curious what folks think it's legacy on the hobby will be. Now I'm not looking to discuss the particular merits of whether case/box/group breaks will be 'worth it', but looking at the bigger picture...

NT is rightfully generating a lot of buzz with the plethora of high-end memorabilia and multi-player cards / booklets Panini's shown off so far, and I've seen countless posts from folks who have ordered multiple cases (many wishing they could have pre-ordered even more). I sense there's been a lack of excitement in the hobby since the lockout - do y'all see the excitement generated here as re-invigorating the hobby going forwards?

With all the ultra-premium content with stuff like quad-shield booklets, cards with a dozen tags, Buried Treasure, etc., I'm also curious what impact if any this has on values for the hobby as a whole - will the pricey singles blow everyone's budgets and make other products pale in comparison ("Oh look, it's 'just' another The Cup Dual Shield card") and put downward pressure on singles values from other products, or might the excitement around NT have a more positive impact on values?

I'm not sure if UD has particularly stepped up their game during the Panini era, I'm curious though if the embarrassment of riches in NT will have a lasting impact - after being treated to so many goodies will folks shift to collecting quality over quantity and perhaps focus more on picking up singles from NT for some time and shy away from UD's releases in the monopoly era if UD sticks completely to the status quo? Of course there will always be a market for entry level products like OPC, but for the mid-high end collector will you still be as interested in SPGU, Ultimate, and The Cup next year in a single rookie class after Panini's last hurrah?

[clvc0017]

i for one am extremely excited for NT to be released. one reason being that i am a fan more of Panini products than UD.

that being said, from what i can see and if all the hype is true (i believe it is) this will have a lasting effect on this product in particular, but will not change anything going forward. the reason this product will be so popular and heavily collected is that Panini is going all out as it will be there final hurrah, as well as that this is a double rookie class and there are many young, budding future stars included. The hype will be there, and last for some time, but as with all products it will fade. every year, there is always "the next one" who is drafted and his card will be the hottest must have item, until "the next one" and "the next one" come out.

in my opinion, NT will be very popular, heavily collected, and have a lasting effect for some time, more than anything the hobby has seen in years. but sadly, i believe this will not change a thing from UD going forward, because when you want the next big thing, UD will be only (licensed) choice around. no competition means no need to improve.

[RGM81]

This is a very difficult question to answer - one can't define something's legacy while it is a current thing...in the case of National Treasures it's not actually even a thing yet. Much like Savage/Steamboat at WrestleMania III needed time to become part of the history of wrestling to become widely hailed as the greatest match of all time, so too will we need perspective and hindsight to have the ability to reflect on National Treasures and assess its place in history.

Indeed, though it is now the final chapter for Panini, the book still hasn't been written yet on their time in the hockey card business. How much of a lasting impact will their 2010-2014 releases have on the hobby? Prime has absolutely transformed the manner in which we look at jumbo memorabilia cards. But it's not going to be until a year or two in Upper Deck Exclusive v2.0 and what adaptations UD makes to produce similar cards; if we see nothing of the sort, collectors will be looking back on those days fondly, and if we see them we'll see and evaluate how they stack up against Panini's offerings of days gone by.

Because of the nature of the secrecy of The Cup, we won't even know for a couple more months how much NT forces UD to up the ante on their super-premium product that closes out the 2013-14 hobby year and the much-ballyhooed Double Rookie Class. 2005-06 Cup revolutionized how we as collectors view high-end collecting. The Crosby RC from that product remains the gold standard of the modern era of card collecting. If you can have one rookie card made in the past twenty years, that's the one you want most. Can anything from NT force the Cup Crosby RC from that lofty perch? Will the MacKinnon RC become the new grand champion of hockey cards? Will it be the defining card of the dual licensee era? Or will The Cup once again find a way to trump even the best of Panini's offerings?

Upper Deck has remained pretty consistent with their releases over the past five card seasons. They haven't rolled out any new products to counter Panini - some would say that they haven't even done much to introduce new items within their existing products in response to the other licensed card company. Yes they introduced the Evolution video cards, but are those likely to remain something that people want or will they go by the wayside? What has UD done during the past five years that makes you truly say "Wow, this is incredible and innovative and new?" The Black Diamond Diamond Draft was pretty great, and will be a fixture for years giving people something truly exciting to chase in a product that has otherwise become tremendously stale. But what's been nifty in Artifacts? Or SPx? Or Ultimate Collection?

I have no doubts whatsoever that National Treasures is going to create a massive buzz in the hobby upon its release. Collectors are going to go gonzo for it. The super-booklets, the diamond-studded 1/1's, the autographed skate pieces, you guys have seen the previews. You know what's in there. But will our memory of the product be a lament for all that could have been if Panini had just been given more time and their license extended? Or will we look at it as a product that inspired Upper Deck to truly make a renewed effort to engage, retain, and attract new collectors so that the next five years have some amazing innovations and enticing releases?

You'll notice that these last three paragraphs end with questions. That's for a reason. We just don't know the answers yet. Or at least...I don't.

[JoelCarry]

"I'm curious what folks think it's legacy on the hobby will be"
PRO:
Well one they will have raised the bar to what to expect for value (multiple hits) from a high end box / case of a product.
Probably the biggest buzz for a product release ever.

CON:
So although this will be their last release i wonder if they could have done this each year if they had chosen to do National treasure previously. In other words they may have been holding out
waiting to see if their license would be renewed.This product shows what they can give you for your money if they want.
They will be another straw on the camels back that eventually broke that back and the collecting world shrank to only a few.



I think UD will not change their business model or effort to combat the buzz of national treasures but merely ride out the storm and carry on.
Then we will all be stuck for less choices to open product of.

The hobby is in a very poor state.Just about every idea / innovation has been beaten to death.Evolving from just sets "in the good ole days" to inserts , autos ,then jerseys , auto jerseys , patches , auto patches , cut signatures , one of one's , plates , auto plates , pieces of pucks/sticks/logos/laundry tags/players letters/other equipment pieces inserted into cards/diamonds inserted into cards ,
Peoples thirst for new innovations drives manufacturers to produce it , can't blame them.As long as people will put their cash down for a certain brand or type of product they will keep producing it.
It is getting harder and harder to open a pack/box of high end hockey and pull a card when sold will cover the cost of the pack/box/tin let alone a case of said product.

Do me favor and don't quote me in this thread ( i am entitled to my opinion )

[KingKuba]

People will just go back to buying UD Because its UD.

Hockey people like same old same old. Traditionalists.
NT might have some legendary status if it ends up being what it's hyped to be plus only game used mackinnon rookie.

As much as people talk game used, their wallets love event used patches....As long as there's suckers out there to overpay for them.

NT baseball is semi - classic now even without a license because baseball has never seen such cards.

In 2 years mackinnon will be no more and it will mcdavid, same with NT and same was with duchane/stasny/landeskog/tavares,

But with panini gone, people might start collecting their stuff again just because there won't be any more made so its easier to collect.

Like who wants to collect another BD year after year of same old...
Prizm might be meh to some people but now if they start collecting gold prizms without anymore produced it's actually makes it semi rare unlike basketball where panini keeps pumping out more and more and next more of the same players.

Average person likes UD too much for NT to have a lasting impact.


Really depends on how bad the 14-15 rookie class and products are .

13-14 products are already being dumped at 50 %

[lemieuxl66]

13-14 products are already being dumped at 50 %

Can you show me where... Would love to scoop some up at that price!

[Gibby]

Way way to early to be using the phrase "Legacy" regarding a product that no one can buy yet ????

[Fred Bear]

Legacy probably isn't the right word...

I think National Treasures does tell us a little about the business side of our hobby, though. Will we learn or adapt from it? We'll have to wait and see...

I find it interesting that on the surface, people are very excited for NT and use phrases such as 'not holding anything back' or 'going all out'. In my mind that raises several more questions, like, if Panini had renewed their license - would we see the same product? What would have been held back? Would they be providing as much 'value'? Why wasn't 'value' a topic for 13-14 Score, 13-14 Prizm, 13-14 Titanium, etc.?

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to bash on Panini. In my opinion, the 'double rookie class' of 13-14 was a pretty lack-luster year for the hobby.

I think National Treasures has to be viewed within the context of the 'last hurrah' which Panini is releasing it. In that context, it looks like a beautiful product. For it to have any true legacy, though, Panini would have to prove that a release at that level is sustainable. Many, many products have been produced and well received once. I know that the shine has worn off UD over the years, but The Cup has proven itself as a sustainable, high-end release. Could it be improved upon? Of course, what couldn't? Can you count on it? It's looking more and more like you can...

[Cunnuc]

I think in essence that the products Panini released (and made prior to) losing their liscence have been huge hits. While a lot of them have taken a nose-dive in value since because it is a dump of inventory, a lot of their sets/subsets are highly sought after and I think many of those will survive the ages.

As far as this dump.. quad shields, did I hear? Okay.. definitely a dump, but like said above this very instance tells you a lot about the hobby and the business. I personally cannot speculate since I wasn't in the hobby when Pacific went under and I don't know if this is a comparison. So I won't compare. Except this... I chase quite a few Pacific inserts like no other UD inserts Ive chased.

I also think, aside from select few of UD auto sub-sets that Panini has much better looking autographs as a whole. I will really miss Panini. I will miss the competition most.

I went in to put in an order of more ITG Draft Prospects yesterday. I wanted to buy a box of Prime (my first) no dice, someone just bought it. So I will just push the urge aside entirely. Maybe I will buy a box of this instead? Like usual, if I like the product around release date and I do well on my first box I tend to buy a lot more :)

I knew nothing of National Treasures until now. I was hoping they would have some silver/gold/platinum (or should I said silver/platinum/gold? Okay.. wrong crowd :P) cards like Donruss Preferred which I would really consider..... a legacy.

Cheers to all those case breakers and hit seekers :P I may join you. Undecided.

[Rraincock]

Does anyone have a link to the preview sheets?