Trying to understand Republican logic on what Barack Obama is doing....

[37jetson]

Andrew, what in the world are you doing running up $200K in student loans when you have no earthly chance of paying them off with a $25K a year job?

If you think you are going to make big money by working in China people are not telling you the truth. Chinese jobs pay local wages which are much lower than America. The ExPat train left the station about 15 years ago.

Many flaws in your argument.


After I graduate I will be making ~$9-19 dollars an hour, pre tax, for my main full-time job, for about 40-50 hours a week, as well as maintaining a part time job making $12-20 an hour at nights.
After a year or so, I hope to move onto a better full time job to make, at most, $25 an hour, with only 75-80 hours a month guaranteed. I'll still be at the part time job and will be either living at home or in a crash pad with 10-15 other people.
I will continue to pay off the ~$200,000+ in college loans I have amassed, despite making only $18-25,000 a year for quite a few years.

Second flaw: I currently have little desire to stay and work in America. I will likely end up working in China or the Middle East, where working and living conditions are far better, and pay is almost ten times better in some cases.

[beachbum]

That's not a 'young buck' view...millions of people share the same ideology. Theres a difference in believing that throwing away a can should be illegal and believing that imaginary lines should not dictate where human beings can and cannot go.

As for the minimum wage, I for one do not believe there should be one...or, if there is one, have different levels of minimum wage for different jobs and industries.

I was drawing no real parallel to the aluminum can other than the dreams we have as young people and all the things that we have fires lit under us to go change the world. There is nothing wrong with it, there is nothing wrong with trying to recycle every aluminum can, my point was in the practicality arena and although dreams are nice and they often make great campaign speeches, some are very hard if not impossible to do. That's all. I wish I knew at 20 what I knew at 40, many things would be different for me.

[shrewsbury]

For the third time now... we've used the exact same calculation method for the unemployment rate for as long as we've been keeping track.

You do realize how the UE rate is calculated?

you also realize that the participation rate is a major indicator of how the economy is going?

when you stop counting millions of people because they gave up or didn't try, they your UE goes down, simple math.

5% of 100 million is more than 5% of 80 million.

[Imac7065]

Andrew, what in the world are you doing running up $200K in student loans when you have no earthly chance of paying them off with a $25K a year job?

If you think you are going to make big money by working in China people are not telling you the truth. Chinese jobs pay local wages which are much lower than America. The ExPat train left the station about 15 years ago.

The average cost of a college education in the US is now 50-100K.... it would take the average american 20-30 years to pay that off, delaying their ability to buy a home, create savings, or plan for retirement. Mark my words the extreme cost of college will cause a domino effect that will bakrupt our country within 50 years.

I myself could not finish school because I stupidly tried to pay it out of pocket. I stand 5 classes away from a degree, and those classes now cost nearly 5 times what they did less than 10 years ago when I was in school. It's disgusting.

[37jetson]

When clinton left office we had a national surplus.. when bush left office we had a nearly trillion dollar deficit that ballooned all the way to 1.67 trillion by the end of 2009. These are facts... today we are under 500 billion from that 1.67 trillion. Yet you sit here trying to spin that into excuses, manipulations, and just can't accept the reality that believe it or not.. the things you and the republicans have railed against since 2008... HAVE WORKED lol.

-Cash for clunkers... worked
-Car bailout.... worked
- Stimulus... worked (and should have been bigger)
-Obamacare... working

the only thing that hasn't worked out for the american people is the bank bailout that was started under bush. The car companies paid us back, a lot of banks have not. Not a single person has gone to jail for the criminal actions of the banks, and that to me is absolutely disgusting. Obama should have never appointed the exact people who caused the chaos to run the treasury.

I have to run some errands, but before I go I will debunk the statement that GM paid back all of it's loans. Chrysler paid back the loans, but is now majority owned by Fiat.
GM: repaid $23.1 billion of the $49.5 billion it got from the U.S. Treasury, including all of its outstanding loans. But Treasury still owns 500 million shares, or 32%, of GM stock. To recoup its full investment, GM stock needs to hit $52.80 per share. It’s currently trading around $21. GM also received a $106 million matching grant to build a battery factory in Brownstown, MI, where it is assembling battery packs for the Chevrolet Volt plug-in car using cells imported from Korea.
Chrysler: repaid $9.2 billion, fulfilling its debt obligations to the U.S. and Canadian governments, and is now owned by Italian automaker Fiat (58.5%) and a health care trust for UAW retirees (41.5%). Overall, taxpayers lost $1.3 billion on the Chrysler bailout. In full recovery mode, Chrysler is currently the fastest-growing carmaker in the world.

[Imac7065]

I have to run some errands, but before I go I will debunk the statement that GM paid back all of it's loans. Chrysler paid back the loans, but is now majority owned by Fiat.
GM: repaid $23.1 billion of the $49.5 billion it got from the U.S. Treasury, including all of its outstanding loans. But Treasury still owns 500 million shares, or 32%, of GM stock. To recoup its full investment, GM stock needs to hit $52.80 per share. It’s currently trading around $21. GM also received a $106 million matching grant to build a battery factory in Brownstown, MI, where it is assembling battery packs for the Chevrolet Volt plug-in car using cells imported from Korea.
Chrysler: repaid $9.2 billion, fulfilling its debt obligations to the U.S. and Canadian governments, and is now owned by Italian automaker Fiat (58.5%) and a health care trust for UAW retirees (41.5%). Overall, taxpayers lost $1.3 billion on the Chrysler bailout. In full recovery mode, Chrysler is currently the fastest-growing carmaker in the world.

The real stats are 80 billion loaned to the car industry, nearly 70 billion paid back. As you said the companies bailed out are now thriving and countless thousands of American jobs / pensions were saved. You are against this? The entire right was screaming to "let the car industry die"... now as you just pointed out.. crysler is the fastest growing car maker. Horrible, just horrible.

Want to compare this to the bank bailout??

[andrewhoya]

Andrew, what in the world are you doing running up $200K in student loans when you have no earthly chance of paying them off with a $25K a year job?

If you think you are going to make big money by working in China people are not telling you the truth. Chinese jobs pay local wages which are much lower than America. The ExPat train left the station about 15 years ago.

I'm a pilot. Chinese Airlines pay a whoooooole lot more than American Airlines (in general, not THE American Airlines). Middle Eastern Airlines are some of the nicest out there, and also pay a heck of a lot better. There is a huge demand for American pilots in other parts of the world, mainly because, quite frankly, we are the best. I wish I didn't have to go international to find those types of wages, but at the same time I find so many things wrong with my country here that I feel like a bit of time away wouldn't be so bad. So, yes, I can make big money in China.

I was drawing no real parallel to the aluminum can other than the dreams we have as young people and all the things that we have fires lit under us to go change the world. There is nothing wrong with it, there is nothing wrong with trying to recycle every aluminum can, my point was in the practicality arena and although dreams are nice and they often make great campaign speeches, some are very hard if not impossible to do. That's all. I wish I knew at 20 what I knew at 40, many things would be different for me.

Gotcha. I didn't mean to attack your comparison at all. It's just frustrating how people seem to think that since I'm young, I've got the young mind and eyes and don't actually research things and make opinions of my own. I hate debating things I know nothing about, which forces me to research extensively. My views are my views.

[andrewhoya]

Andrew, what in the world are you doing running up $200K in student loans when you have no earthly chance of paying them off with a $25K a year job?

If you think you are going to make big money by working in China people are not telling you the truth. Chinese jobs pay local wages which are much lower than America. The ExPat train left the station about 15 years ago.

Just to give you some numbers...

At 25, I could work for China Eastern, or a different Chinese Airline, and have a 3 year contract worth 154,200-258,000 a year.
At 25 here in the US, depending on the plane I'd be flying, and the airline, I'd be making anywhere from $49000-96,000 a year, with a 5-7,000 raise every year.

[beachbum]

Gotcha. I didn't mean to attack your comparison at all. It's just frustrating how people seem to think that since I'm young, I've got the young mind and eyes and don't actually research things and make opinions of my own. I hate debating things I know nothing about, which forces me to research extensively. My views are my views.

Listen up man, I am envious of you, you are smarter than I was at your age, I was more liberal than you at your age, and I wasn't chatting it up with intellectuals (yes, I call you guys intellectuals..you're welcome) at your age, I was partying, spending me money as fast as I could. Your a smart guy, I never mean you any disrespect, I try to keep things light and it doesn't always come through in these boards.

[andrewhoya]

Listen up man, I am envious of you, you are smarter than I was at your age, I was more liberal than you at your age, and I wasn't chatting it up with intellectuals (yes, I call you guys intellectuals..you're welcome) at your age, I was partying, spending me money as fast as I could. Your a smart guy, I never mean you any disrespect, I try to keep things light and it doesn't always come through in these boards.

Right back atcha. I'm sure I'd be friends with all (err...most) of you outside of SCF if I could be myself on here and convey things the way I wanted to. I promise I'm not as delusional as I seem on here sometimes. I know that I can rub people the wrong way on here, but I have to compensate for the 'real' me, who would probably be banned from this section for my constant nagging and sarcasm.