Changes to Upper Deck's Authorized Group Breaker Agreement

[Gallinator]

I do a lot of group breaks, as I generally find that with a little checklist analysis I can cherry-pick for value team-by-team, per product. Along the way, I've tried quite a few breakers and now do my business with a select 3-4 sellers. One of them posted this on Facebook today (posted with permission from the store, but I have removed identifying info):

"As of today September 17 2015 , (we) are no longer part of the Upper Deck Authorized Group Breaker program as we decided to not renew our contract for two reasons and we would like to explain them to you:1 : The new contract stated that breaks on ebay under the format of auction were from now on prohibited, only fixed listings where authorized. A part of (our break philosophy) is about giving the opportunity to every one of our customers to have access to a break every night and to have the possibility to have the team you want. For us, it was not a option to remove our breaks from ebay
2 : The contract also stated that breaks on facebook were prohibited and that breaks could only be done on our website and that social media could only be used as a redirection to our website. (We) think that there is a market on both a website and facebook (and) that facebook is the new way of reaching the most people in the easiest way, (so) it is also not an option to drop our facebook breaks."

I've been dealing with these guys for over two years now and trust them implicitly, so it doesn't matter to me if they are an "Authorized Group Breaker" or not; they have a store, every break is taped and put on YouTube and they deliver quickly and securely. However, I feel this raises some interesting discussion points (feel free to address one or all):

a) Now that group breaks have (I think) become more accepted in the hobby and many sellers have had an opportunity to establish themselves as fair and reputable, does it matter to you (as a current or prospective group break participant) whether or not the breaker has the Upper Deck "seal of approval" as an "Authorized Group Breaker"? Would you be hesitant to try a new breaker who wasn't an AGB, or would you look at other factors like eBay feedback, social media representation, YouTube history/catalog, etc.? How important is it that they be an AGB?

b) Why on earth would Upper Deck care if the group break slots are auctioned off on eBay (the world's foremost online auction venue) or conducted on Facebook? Do you think UD is going too far in their attempt to control dealers or is there something else going on behind the scenes? Wouldn't these kind of restrictions tend to result in LESS product being sold?

I know there were a couple of other points I wanted to make, but it's late and I'll let these questions ride for now. Any thoughts?

[piper1]

Probably one of two things, either they are in cahoots with the powerful and established box breakers to help them get rid of the little guy or they are trying to help protect collectors from the many unscrupulous sellers that operate on shady auction sites like FreEBAY. It would be nice to think that it was the latter but reality says it is probably the former.

[deucegroup]

It doesn't make a difference to me, I always break with people I like and trust, I know who you are speaking of, and even with the AGB I wouldn't break with them.

My guess is that this is to please their biggest customers, some of the top dealers than don't do auctions or sell breaks on FB, like CnC.

[30ranfordfan]

Since group breaks are against eBay's terms of service (granted, they do a horrible job at enforcing them) it's not out of the question that eBay asked them to do it.


Would I care about doing a break with someone that is not "authorized" ?? No. If I know them, if I trust them, it doesn't matter. Most of the GB's I've done were here on SCF, run by doniceage. I don't recall him breaking any UD products (mostly ITG or Panini stuff that he's getting really good prices on, great value breaks) but he's not "authorized" by anyone (as far as I know).

But for the sellers, the authorization is a big deal. Upper Deck only lets you sell boxes (or group breaks) online, in the first 6 months of the product coming out, if you're an authorized dealer. I would imagine that if the guys you've been buying from are no longer authorized dealers.... if they continue to sell online, they'll have their distribution pulled out from underneath them.

I'm about 95% certain that Upper Deck is changing the rules, to protect the pricing. That's why they brought in the whole "authorized online retailer" thing in the first place; it all has to do with distribution.....

Dealers make most of their best margins off the higher end stuff (The Cup is a boon for them). Want access to 6 cases of The Cup? Then you've got to buy 6 cases of everything..... including products that won't sell very quickly. For a long time, it made sense for some of the online guys to just blow those boxes out quickly (if UD Series 2 wasn't selling great - just sell it at cost to be rid of it) which would undercut other dealers trying to get full retail value (and especially the local shops). Signing on to their authorized dealer list, it means you're signing on to their price fixing too.

Another example of this: The Expo. For many years, at the Fall Expo, UD Series 1 has been the hot box to break. You'd get a priority signings card (free, from Upper Deck) for breaking a box. For a very long time, you just had to get in line, rip, and get your card. Now? You have to buy that box from an authorized dealer at the expo, get a redemption slip, and then break. Trade in your slip and get the card. Why did they do this?? Because the bigger dealers, trying to get full retail price for their boxes, were getting undersold by some of the smaller guys just trying to move product. The box might start out at $75 on Friday, but by Saturday you'd find some dealers selling for only $65. Now?? If you want to hand out redemption slips, you have to agree to a common price.

What frustrates me about that is I can no longer by a box from my LCS, and bring that to the show.


I'm guessing this is where they're headed with the group breaks. They're trying to fix the prices so that the big boys can guarantee their profits.

[reoddai]

Totally for removing group breaks from eBay. Although they didnt go far enough just removing auctions and permitting fixed prices.

Group breaks are against eBay TOS.
If someone hits it big and the group breaker decides to keep it, all the payer can recover is the cost they paid for the listing and not the value of the break
One group break creates dozens of listings that clog my search feeds because of keyword spamming


I think UD did it this year because they think that the McDavid phenomena will cause people to pay through the nose and don't want anyone to get it cheap. I think that this may be a trial rule to see how it goes and get rid of it next year. Still, anything that improves my searcheson on ebay would be welcome.

I can't see what good banning Facebook breaks did? Maybe the both above impact their replacement policy regarding the need for receipts and proof of purchase?

Cheers,
Reoddai

[geschrocks33]

The only bad thing is that if a card is pulled in a group break and damaged, I believe UD will only replace it if it comes from an "Authorized Group Breaker" If not I was told you are basically SOL

[deucegroup]

The only bad thing is that if a card is pulled in a group break and damaged, I believe UD will only replace it if it comes from an "Authorized Group Breaker" If not I was told you are basically SOL

Yeah but you can find a way around that pretty easily.

[Gallinator]

Since group breaks are against eBay's terms of service (granted, they do a horrible job at enforcing them) it's not out of the question that eBay asked them to do it.


Would I care about doing a break with someone that is not "authorized" ?? No. If I know them, if I trust them, it doesn't matter. Most of the GB's I've done were here on SCF, run by doniceage. I don't recall him breaking any UD products (mostly ITG or Panini stuff that he's getting really good prices on, great value breaks) but he's not "authorized" by anyone (as far as I know).

But for the sellers, the authorization is a big deal. Upper Deck only lets you sell boxes (or group breaks) online, in the first 6 months of the product coming out, if you're an authorized dealer. I would imagine that if the guys you've been buying from are no longer authorized dealers.... if they continue to sell online, they'll have their distribution pulled out from underneath them.

I'm about 95% certain that Upper Deck is changing the rules, to protect the pricing. That's why they brought in the whole "authorized online retailer" thing in the first place; it all has to do with distribution.....

Dealers make most of their best margins off the higher end stuff (The Cup is a boon for them). Want access to 6 cases of The Cup? Then you've got to buy 6 cases of everything..... including products that won't sell very quickly. For a long time, it made sense for some of the online guys to just blow those boxes out quickly (if UD Series 2 wasn't selling great - just sell it at cost to be rid of it) which would undercut other dealers trying to get full retail value (and especially the local shops). Signing on to their authorized dealer list, it means you're signing on to their price fixing too.

Another example of this: The Expo. For many years, at the Fall Expo, UD Series 1 has been the hot box to break. You'd get a priority signings card (free, from Upper Deck) for breaking a box. For a very long time, you just had to get in line, rip, and get your card. Now? You have to buy that box from an authorized dealer at the expo, get a redemption slip, and then break. Trade in your slip and get the card. Why did they do this?? Because the bigger dealers, trying to get full retail price for their boxes, were getting undersold by some of the smaller guys just trying to move product. The box might start out at $75 on Friday, but by Saturday you'd find some dealers selling for only $65. Now?? If you want to hand out redemption slips, you have to agree to a common price.

What frustrates me about that is I can no longer by a box from my LCS, and bring that to the show.


I'm guessing this is where they're headed with the group breaks. They're trying to fix the prices so that the big boys can guarantee their profits.

Good points, but let's be clear that the "Authorized Group Breaker" status is a different agreement than the "Certified Diamond Dealer" agreement. It would be pretty dirty if UD interfered with a dealer's distribution agreement simply because they didn't want to adhere to the changes in the AGB program.

*****
I'll share what I think about eBay group breaks later on - hint: I like 'em! Screw eBay in general, anyway - it's a love/hate relationship for most of us there, right?

[30ranfordfan]

I assume they would. They'll interfere with their distribution agreement if they don't adhere to the online retailer status. If your LCS starts selling online, before they're allowed to (or for less than the listed price) they'll have access to the product yanked.

I would assume the big thing with the GBs will be damaged card replacement.

Good points, but let's be clear that the "Authorized Group Breaker" status is a different agreement than the "Certified Diamond Dealer" agreement. It would be pretty dirty if UD interfered with a dealer's distribution agreement simply because they didn't want to adhere to the changes in the AGB program.

*****
I'll share what I think about eBay group breaks later on - hint: I like 'em! Screw eBay in general, anyway - it's a love/hate relationship for most of us there, right?

[rydlar99]

Yes, yes they will. They could even screw with your distribution if you break say 2015 UD Team Canada Master Collection as a personal break live on breakers TV...even though you broke it after the release date, but happened to get it in your hands before major Ontario brick & mortar hobby shops.

Hypothetically speaking of course.