A 'Forgotten' War; As Iraq Improves, Coverage Dries Up

[tnopud42]

Don, I can agree to disagree.

"If you agree with this point, do you also agree that Bush shouldn't have a given time table to have the troops home from Iraq?" -

OnePimpTiger - I don't believe I've ever stated that we need a timetable in order to get out of Iraq.

These are the facts, as I see them. We should never have gone into Iraq. Afghanistan was and should have been the primary objective. We've created two military fronts when we should have concentrated on the objective at hand. I do not believe that all of Bush's motives for invasion were altruistic, but those are facts that we won't know for years to come. We are in a situation for which there is no immediate solution. We will be in Iraq for years to come and although the cost in lives may continue to decrease the financial burden will not.

[OnePimpTiger]

Fair enough...and I didn't mean you said that, just that most anti-war people do. It was an honest question to you.

The way I look at Iraq, the world is a better place without Saddam in power. Would it have been easier to have an assassin take him out with one shot? Yes, but then someone would have just taken his place and we would be no better off. As it stands, we are paying dearly financially and in soldiers lives lost, but we are trying to insure a safer world, form an ally in an ever-conflicted Middle East, and protect our interests regarding terrorism and oil. Anyone who believes Iraq was not at least indirectly supporting terrorism against the US is naive. It may not have been the strongest or most blatant terrorist force against the US, but fighting in Iraq is fighting terrorism. And anyone who believes Bush went to Iraq just to make some money off and/or get cheap oil is naive as well. But if trying to secure a country that provides a large amount of oil to the US was part of it, I see nothing wrong with that. I have no problem with the US protecting its interests, whether it be in security or economics.

[Bonds_25]

Iraq had no connection to 9/11, anyone preaching that as justification for this war is grasping at straws. Iraq was never a major threat to your national security. They never have any WMD as the Bush administration led us to believe.

Our international image is already in shambles. I would much rather save American lives and the billions of dollars wasted on this war than to attempt to save our international image that is depleted far beyond repair at this time. Occupying Iraq for years to come, which is what it will take to establish Iraq's sovereignty is simply too great of a cost for this country.

Protecting the oil is about the only legitimate reason to be there right now. Unfortunately, this country has failed to launch a significant movement towards alternative fuels. I believe Brazil produces a good majority of their fuel off of sugarcane ethanol. While they don't have near as high of demand for oil that we do, we can certainly find ways to decrease our dependence on oil.

As far as talking to soldiers there Mike, I have spoken to friends that have served in Iraq and since returned home. I've heard just as many anti-war rants from them.

[Yanksfan396]

The article looks like a load of conservative crap rivaling FOX News reports. No, things aren't better in Iraq. Things will never be better. Bonds, I agree with you whole-heartedly. We are there to improve our image and reap economical benefits. The latter may not be a bad idea, but is it worth the lives that have been sacrificed? Of course not. I think most in this country accept the fact that we have lost. There are a select few of elitist, far-right wings who feed on pride and the oh-so-familiar "patriotism." Thankfully, these people will lose their respective voices on the 20th of January, 2009.

[mikesilvia]

Iraq had no connection to 9/11, anyone preaching that as justification for this war is grasping at straws. Iraq was never a major threat to your national security. They never have any WMD as the Bush administration led us to believe.

I think 5,000+ Kurds and thousands of Iranians with health problems today would disagree with you that Saddam in fact had WMDs.

The article looks like a load of conservative crap rivaling FOX News reports.

I stopped reading after that point. People that start their points off slamming one side, show me they are not in a debating mood and do not value the other side of the argument. Any response would be wasting my breath.

[mikesilvia]

And thanks Mike and pass my thanks on to your guys over there now for what you and they are doing. Unlike a lot of people who say they support the troops and then disparage everything they do, I appreciate and support you guys 100%! Keep up the great work!

I thought about posting my troops' e-mail address for you guys to send them a message yourself, but I don't want their e-mail on the internet. Too many anti-war crazies (people that take it to the extreme) out there that would send hate mail.

I may be able to scrape up a mailing address if anyone is intereting in sending some care packages to Iraq and Afghanistan. It would go military mail so it would not be expensive. PM me if anyone is interested.

If I go to Iraq this year I expect some care packages!

[Bonds_25]

I think 5,000+ Kurds and thousands of Iranians with health problems today would disagree with you that Saddam in fact had WMDs.

You have a point, although I don't believe there were WMD in Iraq at the start of the war or in the time shortly before that in which Bush pushed for the war. My main point behind that is that Iraq never posed a serious national security threat to the US. Was Saddam a threat to his own people? Absolutely.

Anyway, I just wanted to say one other thing to everyone that has posted in this thread: I'm glad to see we can discuss something as heated and controversial as this war without resorting to personal attacks. It is a pleasant change from what you see in most internet conversations.

[mikesilvia]

You have a point, although I don't believe there were WMD in Iraq at the start of the war or in the time shortly before that in which Bush pushed for the war. My main point behind that is that Iraq never posed a serious national security threat to the US. Was Saddam a threat to his own people? Absolutely.

I think that is irrelevant. He had it for 30 years, kicked out inspectors so know one really knew for sure. Then we went to the UN for over six months and started to prepare for war. Do you think he would allow the US in to find anything? He either destroyed it or shipped it off.

Here is how I relate to it. Imagine a DEA agent meeting a know drug lord on the street and saying, "I know you are producing drugs in your compound. In 6 months I'm coming their with a warrant and 100s of cops to show everyone that you have them." Then 6 months later you bust in to the compound and find some left over parts for the machines that produce the drugs and some residue, but no drugs. Then the mayor yells at you, "See! I told you there were no drugs here!"

Get my point?

Anyway, I just wanted to say one other thing to everyone that has posted in this thread: I'm glad to see we can discuss something as heated and controversial as this war without resorting to personal attacks. It is a pleasant change from what you see in most internet conversations.

I agree! The great thing about discussions like this on forums is you are judged by your ability to debate. No one cares if you are 14 years old, black, white, Muslim, etc. You are judged by your responses and how you research and back your arguments.

Kudos to all, no matter what your opinion is on the Iraq war.

In my view, regardless of why we are there, we are there and we owe our troops 100% support. I don't know about you guys but I'm not about quitting and know if we support our troops and out next President (Democrat or Republican) we can win this fight and the overall fight against terrorism. I have an 8 year old daughter that I want to grow up without fear of terrorism. America is not Spain and we don't put our military in full retreat because terrorist attack us. We have the best men and women in the world serving in the Middle East right now and if we would just back them like we did in World War II and the Korean War we would succeed 100%.

[Bonds_25]

In my view, regardless of why we are there, we are there and we owe our troops 100% support. I don't know about you guys but I'm not about quitting and know if we support our troops and out next President (Democrat or Republican) we can win this fight and the overall fight against terrorism. I have an 8 year old daughter that I want to grow up without fear of terrorism. America is not Spain and we don't put our military in full retreat because terrorist attack us. We have the best men and women in the world serving in the Middle East right now and if we would just back them like we did in World War II and the Korean War we would succeed 100%.

I absolutely support the troops and I hope they all come home safe and sound asap. I'm guessing the vast majority of us all want the best for them.

Not too long ago I shared similar views as you Mike, I didn't believe that backing out and ending the occupation in Iraq was the right thing to do. I felt that all the lives and time invested in our cause there would essentially be negated should we leave.

Over time, with the violence continuing I just don't see the point in it anymore. Unfortunately I believe terrorism is always going to be around. Does that mean we shouldn't fight it? Absolutely not, but I do think we need to pick and choose our battles. To me our nation is in more danger today than it was prior to this war. Not only because our troops are in harm's way in Iraq and Middle East, but also because back home we now have a limited amount of resources.

I know some will say that it is better to fight them on their soil rather than ours, hell I think even Bush has said that at times. But I think that is an exaggeration in this case. I don't believe another 9/11 is going to happen should we leave Iraq. 9/11 was an eye opener, it made the threat of terrorism far more applicable than we had ever anticipated. We are much more prepared for that now. Will we have more terrorist attacks on our soil? As much as I hate to say it yes. It is impossible to uncover every plot and prevent every evil plan. I just don't believe that leaving Iraq is going to put this nation at any additional risk as far as future terrorist attacks go. For as many terrorists we are apparently getting rid of, there will be just as many if not more developing because of us being there. The oil is a different story.

[mikesilvia]

The oil is a different story.

That is the real issue. What drives me insane is almost every other country gets more oil from Iraq than we do, but very few are supporting the war effort fully for a stable Iraq. China and Europe get MUCH more oil from Iraq than we do.

People don't realize it, but we get most of our oil within the US and from Canada. Our #1 import is from Canada. Iraq is #5, so it is extremely important to our gas pumps that Iraq remain stable and start improving. Europe, India and China have a huge interest in a stable Iraq as they import a ton of oil from Iraq. You can see some great stats here.

I general find it funny when people that drive huge SUVs and heat their huge home complain about us caring about oil in Iraq. How else do they plan on driving their car, heating their home, and flying around the world? As long as Americans continue to consume oil our Presidents will continue to go to war in the Middle East. Our #1 goal should be to reduce our need for Middle East resources and find alternative sources of energy. Digging in Alaska, building more oil rigs and nuclear power plants would be a good start. Pumping in a lot of money into solar energy should be our long term play.

If you guys want to see a great movie watch "Crude Awakening" and you will realize that this war is likely the beginning of many battles over oil in the future. China and India have close to 3 billion people alone. If they increase their drivers by 10% that is 300 million more drivers on the road or the TOTAL population of America. Something to think about!