UD Ultimate vs UD Ice Rookies /99

[kovyheater]

I would like to start a discussion why people generally prefer UD Ice RC /99 over the counterpart UD Ultimate RC /99.

UD Ultimate RCs are hard signed and in pretty expensive packs which would make me think they would be a better choice over UD Ice RC /99 which are just limited, but nothing really unique.

Assume we all understand supply and demand theory, I want to know why isn't UD Ultimate valued more.

Examples:
Jonthan Toews Ultimate $300 Ice $400
Carey Price Ultimate $300 Ice $600
Steven Stamkos Ultimate $600 Ice $1400
John Tavares Ultimate $350 Ice $500

Thanks for your input.

[CupDynasty]

I have had this same debate with so many friends over the years. I just don't get the Over Value collectors but on Ice rookies. Personally, how can you even compare it to a hard signed rookie card out of the same /99. For collectors whose player they collect doesn't have a hard signed rc out of /99 ....I guess they have more value. But when talking about the big players, I see no reason to add them to my P.C. I pick them up all the time to use as trade bait because I am asked daily for them by other traders/buyers.

P.S My friends argument is they are such a tough pull since not many people break that product, so I can see that point.

[Yipper]

I think a large role was played when the Ice Rookies where put back in the 05-06 product after look-out versus the 05-06 Ultimate of that year.

In that year the 05-06 Ice had numerous rookies and the difficulty of pulling a /99 is quite high versus 05-06 Ultimate where the SP rookies were /299. Thus with print runs + the rookie crop, it made the Ice more desirable to own (comparing 1 to 1 that is).

As years gone by it sort of followed that trend. The design of the card played a bit of role too. The Ice were quite attractive looking cards.

[kovyheater]

Very good points. UD Ultimate rookies /99 were 1 per case, right? Same as UD Ice?
At $100/pack...UD Ultimate is more expensive and less broken, right?

The 05-06 theory is interesting, but I am surprised it has lasted this long. Especially after 06-07 didn't even have UD Ice.

As for design, it is just personal taste, I guess. I think UD Ultimate are far more attractive than any Ice card - across the board.

[centrehice]

Ice Rookies have a little more punch because of the 05-06 Crosby SP #/25 that nobody has seen.

Since then, Ice have carried a little more clout, combined with 2 hard years of pulls 96-97 and 97-98.

Ultimate it would seem, is busted open for a chance at the Shields.

[Yipper]

Ice Rookies have a little more punch because of the 05-06 Crosby SP #/25 that nobody has seen.

Since then, Ice have carried a little more clout, combined with 2 hard years of pulls 96-97 and 97-98.

Ultimate it would seem, is busted open for a chance at the Shields.

The had a SP #/25 for Crosby??? I learn something new everyday lolll.



...

As for the design, I agree. It is personal taste. I like the Ultimate more, personally.

I think a lot of it really has to do with tradition. Its more hyped up now from the Crosby area. New individuals and such keep on hearing the value of the Ice /99 so the continue assurance makes it more valuable.

[kovyheater]

The had a SP #/25 for Crosby??? I learn something new everyday lolll.

Are we talking about the patch auto insert set /10?

[RGM81]

I agree with the sentiment that it dates back to 05-06 Ice - IIRC someone once did the math and it's stupid hard to pull an /99 RC. Something like 1:9 or even 1:17 cases. People spent a lot of money going after the Crosby or Ovechkin RCs and came up with a lot of cases where the best they did was a couple /499'ers.

In recent years Ice RC's /99 have got a bit easier to pull, but even then how does that explain the popularity of a non-auto, non-memorabilia RC over a high-end hard-signed RC?

I simply chalk it up to Ultimate Collection being something akin to SP Game Used in terms of its rookies: it's a high-priced product where getting a rookie card isn't the main attraction. There's nothing unique about the RC in Ultimate - you can get hard-signed RC's in numerous other products, albeit not ones where you get 4 cards for $120. Sure, they're /99 but if you had the ability to only get one /99 RC a year, it ain't gonna be Ultimate, not when The Cup and Dominion are around. Ultimate is the warm-up product to The Cup and is treated as such.

Why Ice, then? They're cool-looking cards, they grade very well, and they're the first SSP RCs to show up during the release calendar. They strike while the iron is hot. The only thing hot when Ultimate comes out to market is the weather.

[kovyheater]

I agree with the sentiment that it dates back to 05-06 Ice - IIRC someone once did the math and it's stupid hard to pull an /99 RC. Something like 1:9 or even 1:17 cases. People spent a lot of money going after the Crosby or Ovechkin RCs and came up with a lot of cases where the best they did was a couple /499'ers.

In recent years Ice RC's /99 have got a bit easier to pull, but even then how does that explain the popularity of a non-auto, non-memorabilia RC over a high-end hard-signed RC?

I simply chalk it up to Ultimate Collection being something akin to SP Game Used in terms of its rookies: it's a high-priced product where getting a rookie card isn't the main attraction. There's nothing unique about the RC in Ultimate - you can get hard-signed RC's in numerous other products, albeit not ones where you get 4 cards for $120. Sure, they're /99 but if you had the ability to only get one /99 RC a year, it ain't gonna be Ultimate, not when The Cup and Dominion are around. Ultimate is the warm-up product to The Cup and is treated as such.

Why Ice, then? They're cool-looking cards, they grade very well, and they're the first SSP RCs to show up during the release calendar. They strike while the iron is hot. The only thing hot when Ultimate comes out to market is the weather.

Thank you for replying. That was very clear and well written.
Do we really need anyone else to comment?

[Yipper]

Thank you for replying. That was very clear and well written.
Do we really need anyone else to comment?

I agree with Richard, makes a lot of sense.

And to add, the Utlimate Rookie /99 is sort of over-shadowed by Ultimate Rookie Shields that are in the product. People pay more attention to those than that of the actual rookies in the product.