How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[Wickabee]

But not all Churches are like this, there are some who genuinely have Jesus as their leader. I understand what you think about Churches as many if not most denominations are like this and give all Churches a bad name. But I will tell you that not all are like this.

When you say "church" do you mean religion? I ask because I recently made the statement that church is business when I apparently should have said religion is business.

[boba]

When you say "church" do you mean religion? I ask because I recently made the statement that church is business when I apparently should have said religion is business.

Yeah, you could fill in religion or denomination in the spots I put church.

[Wickabee]

Ok, well all I will say to that is people can put on any show they want and say whatever they want. It doesn't mean what you're seeing is happening or what you're hearing is true.

I won't deny the possibility of such religions, but I've never met one.

[AUTaxMan]

But not all Churches are like this, there are some who genuinely have Jesus as their leader. I understand what you think about Churches as many if not most denominations are like this and give all Churches a bad name. But I will tell you that not all are like this.

Most churches do not fit wickabee's perception. Some may be, but the overwhelming majority are not.

[ensbergcollector]

Speaking only of Christianity, yes. However I don't for a second believe any one religions version of it, be it Catholic, Baptist, Quaker, Whatever. These are all man-made organizations who have human leaders.

That's where it all fails for me. It's nice to say Jesus is the head of your church, but I find that it's mostly lip service. Even if the followers believe it, the leaders are just counting their money.

the bible specifically states that there should be church leaders. The bible even goes as far as to give qualifications for elders and deacons.

now, i agree that there should be no one claiming to lead out of being closer to God but the church is told to appoint leadership.

[shrewsbury]

Jesus, who is more important than the bible (for christians) never taught you had to be part of a church to be christian.

this is the main reason the "bible" was put together, so man have could control over your religion.

this is not to say churches can't play an important role nor that they do not help out communities, but they are not needed to reach gods salvation

[ensbergcollector]

Jesus, who is more important than the bible (for christians) never taught you had to be part of a church to be christian.

this is the main reason the "bible" was put together, so man have could control over your religion.

this is not to say churches can't play an important role nor that they do not help out communities, but they are not needed to reach gods salvation

no one is saying you have to go to church to reach salvation. but i'm not sure how people can take things jesus said (in the bible) while also saying they don't have to listen to anything else in the bible. Regardless of what people think of the church, the council of nicea, or anything else. How can you accept Jesus at his words but ignore anything written by paul?

[shrewsbury]

one reason would be, there are books left out of the bible that are as relevant as anything in it.

accept jesus at his word does not mean it has to written in the bible, jesus is everywhere and inside of all of us.

ignore anything written by paul, i would say not everything.

how about christians who do not follow mary? jesus' main person, his confidant, the one who told the others jesus had risen and was there when he died on the cross, but because she was a women the church shunned her and tried to destroy all written material associated with her.

[ensbergcollector]

one reason would be, there are books left out of the bible that are as relevant as anything in it.

accept jesus at his word does not mean it has to written in the bible, jesus is everywhere and inside of all of us.

ignore anything written by paul, i would say not everything.

how about christians who do not follow mary? jesus' main person, his confidant, the one who told the others jesus had risen and was there when he died on the cross, but because she was a women the church shunned her and tried to destroy all written material associated with her.

and where do you get the information that mary was jesus' main person and his confidant?

you do know that the "gospel of mary" as well as the "gospel of thomas" and the "gospel of judas" and a ton of others, were almost 100% proven to be written by the gnostics? As in, not by the people they claimed to be written by. do a little research on the gnostics. The same people who brought you the gospel of mary are the same people who brought you the "jesus was a hologram" idea as well as the "the spirit of God entered a normal man jesus at his baptism and left him at the garden" so that they didn't have to accept that the son of God died on the cross.

in fact, the church did not shun mary. First of all, at the time of jesus, women were not even allowed to testify in court. Their opinion meant nothing. So, for the gospels to even record that mary was the one who was the first witness to jesus' resurrection was a huge issue, and in fact is one that skeptics used to refute the resurrection story.

the language in paul's writings about women's roles, which have been used to show a sexist slant in the church, were in fact far more progressive toward women then anything to be found in the culture at the time.

[boba]

the bible specifically states that there should be church leaders. The bible even goes as far as to give qualifications for elders and deacons.

now, i agree that there should be no one claiming to lead out of being closer to God but the church is told to appoint leadership.

+1, you put this a lot better then I did.