Has it occurred to anyone here

[RGM81]

I think you don't know what a Ponzi scheme is.

You can rail about the perceived lack of sanity all you want, but when there are people that regularly and consistently pay top dollar for premium hockey cards and thereby establish that yes they do indeed have value, it cuts deeply into your central argument. Granted, you acknowledge that you don't understand "the percieved "rarity" when it is just arbitrarily created." Fringe player RC's from the 70s and 80s were printed in the tens of thousands on cheap and flimsy cardboard that would occasionally end up stuck to a piece of "chewing" gum; even a fringe player Cup RC only has 199-249 copies and comes from a nice shiny tin and is printed on high gloss premium cardstock. The rarity is absolute and tangible, even if heightened interest in one particular fringe RC over the other is due to the intangible and unique preference in each collector.

You can rest assured that nobody is going to take even an Alexander Perezhogin Cup RC and put it into their bicycle spokes as they would a Larry Playfair RC.

[EliasDevil]

Is it really that much more absurd than breaking a box for $100.... when there is virtually no chance of hitting a card even worth half that?

In a $100 box of Certified I can a rookie auto, veteran auto, GU and a patch card as well as a bunch of base. I'm saving $400 by not worrying about perceived value as in reality I'm still getting a couple autographs and a couple chunks of jersey for a fifth of the price.

[RGM81]

In a $100 box of Certified I can a rookie auto, veteran auto, GU and a patch card as well as a bunch of base. I'm saving $400 by not worrying about perceived value as in reality I'm still getting a couple autographs and a couple chunks of jersey for a fifth of the price.

Sticker auto with a jersey piece and higher print run vs. a hard-signed patch auto and limited print run.

Also a sticker auto vs. a hard-signed auto. Player selection is also more limited and elite in the latter.

Smaller memorabilia piece, likely to be of a B or even C calibre player vs. a larger piece of a more elite player.

Base cards in Certified have a less flashy card stock and a much larger print run vs. The Cup's superior card stock and limited print run.

The best analogy I can use to illustrate this is the following: you can buy a $2 inside round piece of beef at the grocery store and cook it, or you can go to The Keg and have their prime rib for about $40. Ultimately it can come from the same cow, but it's a vastly different experience entirely.

[30ranfordfan]

You are, of course, absolutley correct.

Weather it's $100 or $500.... or even a value brand (like Score) for $25.... we are talking about sepnding money on cardboard pictures of hockey men. Some have extra ink scribbeled on them, others have pieces of sweat stained clothing on them. Some even have both.

Yes, I'm being a little over the top with my descriptions, but that is basically what collectors are paying for.

If you bust a box of certified, for $100, IMO you're getting decent value for your money. I busted one myself, and have done a few others in that price range this year (BTP has been my favorite).

If someone is collecting simply for the sake of collecting.... and they're interested in pulling game used cards, autograph cards, rookie cards... whatever.... and after opening those packs (or boxes) they are going to be content to hang onto whatever they've pulled, and add it to their collection... and really don't worry about who the player is, what card they got, or what they'll do with it afterwards - then I will say I am very happy for them, and glad they enjoyed the product they pulled.

But to say you're not worrying about the "perceived value" misses the fact that there is a market for those cards, once the product has been opened.

If one collector pulls a Rookie Card of Ryan Nugent Hopkins from a box of Certifed, and another pulls one from a tin of The Cup - guess who is going to be able to sell or trade their card for more? That's not perceived value, that is actual value. The Cup RC will sell in the thousands, the Certified one for less than $200.

Myself, I have never opened a tin of The Cup.... I don't plan to this year.... and unless my financial situation changes dramatically in the future (maybe my boss will give me a 300% raise??) I doubt I'll be doing one anytime soon. There are a lot of people out there that can afford to spend that kind of money though, they enjoy it, and I'll bet the average tin of The Cup will produce cards that sell for about 5x what the cards from the average box of Certified does.

In a $100 box of Certified I can a rookie auto, veteran auto, GU and a patch card as well as a bunch of base. I'm saving $400 by not worrying about perceived value as in reality I'm still getting a couple autographs and a couple chunks of jersey for a fifth of the price.

[centrehice]

Is it really that much more absurd than breaking a box for $100.... when there is virtually no chance of hitting a card even worth half that?

Dunno, I've never paid $100.00 for a box of cards before, so yes it's more than 5 times as absurd.

[EliasDevil]

Sticker auto with a jersey piece and higher print run vs. a hard-signed patch auto and limited print run.

Also a sticker auto vs. a hard-signed auto. Player selection is also more limited and elite in the latter.

Smaller memorabilia piece, likely to be of a B or even C calibre player vs. a larger piece of a more elite player.

Base cards in Certified have a less flashy card stock and a much larger print run vs. The Cup's superior card stock and limited print run.

The best analogy I can use to illustrate this is the following: you can buy a $2 inside round piece of beef at the grocery store and cook it, or you can go to The Keg and have their prime rib for about $40. Ultimately it can come from the same cow, but it's a vastly different experience entirely.

But still I'm getting 2 autographs and I'm not one to care if it's a sticker or on card as long as it's legit and in 2 years and 3 boxes I've gotten B Schenn and Couturier signed rookies (with Couturier being hard signed) as well as a Pavelski auto /25 and got those for 60% of a box of Cup. I don't care if the cards themselves are worth the same amount as a Cup counterpart because I'm happy to have gotten legitimate autographs for literally a fifth of the price.

[reoddai]

OMG!!!!

I just looked in my wallet and there are these pieces of paper in there with numbers on them... and i realized... its just paper.

ITS WORTHLESS! Who will want my paper?!?! Its already full of ink so no one can even use it to write notes on. And there's millions of them!

Maybe, just maybe, I can find someone who's willing to accept these pieces of paper in trade for something that I need and would value. Like Gold. That precious metal that does nothing but be gold. Or Diamonds. Those sparkly things that are valuable because..... DIAMONDS!

How can this paper ponzi scheme foisted upon us by the government ever hold up to long term value? I've even herd of something called "inflation" where those fools who are willing to accept now, try to tell me that it worth less to them in the future. How crazy is that?

....

The above is of course, all in jest. If you are seriously concerned about this subject, you may want to study some economic philosophy.

Cheers,
reoddai

[slypig]

just seems like a troll thread, anyone with any sense of supply/demand or any concept of spending disposable income on luxuries wouldn't post something like this. I don;t whine about the cost of a brake job on a Ferrari because I can't afford to buy one so why would I care what Ferrari owners are spending on one.

The Cup= a bunch of cardboard with scribbles and pieces of clothing and pictures of sweaty men
Pinnacle= a bunch of cardboard with some scribbles and pieces of clothing and pictures of sweaty men

Ferrari= a car to get from point a to point b (really fast and really cool)
Toyota= a car to get form point a to point b (not as cool but way cheaper and practical)

Fact: the cup looks way better and is the ferrari of hockey cards pinnacle is more the Yugo of hockey cards ( I was being generous using Toyota as a comparison)

[TheIronHorse4]

These threads bashing those who spend their money on whatever they choose is getting really old. If someone wants to spend $500+ on a pack of 5 cards that's their prerogative. I'm sure most of the people who buy the cup look at $500 like some of us look at $5 for a latte. The holier then thou attitude of the "smart buyers" on these boards is truly annoying. Without the high end buyers, there is no secondary market for those who just look for singles. There is nothing wrong with any one way of collecting in this hobby, and that is the beauty of it. You can be someone who buys 10 cases of cup for the thrill of hitting some huge cards, or the buyer who buys the odd packs of UD series I and score and sharing them with their kids. I don't understand why there always has to be this asinine debate on who does what with their money and how buying boxes is such a waste. All box breakers know it's a gamble that most of the time you don't even make your money back. It's fun for some to open boxes, it's fun for others not to and just trade and pick up singles.

Seriously, give this argument a rest.

[mooneyes]

When it comes to what people are willing to shell out $'s for, I always think of the audacious dude who thought, "I wonder if I mass produce rubber chickens, will anyone buy em?" Lucky, or intelligently, he Didn't underestimate WHAT North American's will buy! So, to the original poster's point, regardless of supply/demand, rarity, quality, economic philosophy etc...Yes, we are, as a society, in a word, NUTS!