Gun Control?

[tpeichel]

I'm not sure why the media hasn't connected the dots between all the recent mass murderers and the anti-depressants they have been using. I suspect that they know but are avoiding the topic because the pharma industry is such a huge advertiser and power player in government.

[habsheaven]

I can't comment on the "medicating of young people" because I do not know enough about it, although I am sure it could be a factor. The problem is there are many societal factors that seem to be affecting young men that are being drawn to this behaviour. I just wish the attitudes would change from; 'we can't stop it, so why bother making any changes", to "we have to try everything, even if it only has a chance of helping".

[ajcorleone]

Without getting too deep I had a close family member almost commit suicide because he was derpressed.After medicating for 2 years he was calm but felt worse.He went cold turkey off his anti depressants and after a year battle is better without the medicine.he felt the medicine made it worse.Just a point of view maybe we rush to medicate every little thing

I was actually about to post about how drugs play a part in all this, but lost interest in the thread. A lot of people think that helping the sanity of people and giving them help involves strong drugs. A lot of the time, it makes the problem worse or has an effect that is even worse then the problem it was meant to cure. Just as an example, I know for a fact antidepressants can have a terrible effect.

[shrewsbury]

greg, I have had two friends who had to use a gun to defend their families, both fatally injured the intruder, one is still in the court process of it all.

getting out is usually not an option, first, everyone does not sleep in the same room, second someone is in the house in a location unknown, and third, they do not want you to leave.

the other opened fired through his wall and striking th guy several times.

if they did not have guns to protect themselves, I would probally be attending at least one if not several funerals.

if you haven't been thee, it is easy to judge, but i can tell you both these men did not want to kill anyone, they had little choice.

[Wickabee]

I can't comment on the "medicating of young people" because I do not know enough about it, although I am sure it could be a factor. The problem is there are many societal factors that seem to be affecting young men that are being drawn to this behaviour. I just wish the attitudes would change from; 'we can't stop it, so why bother making any changes", to "we have to try everything, even if it only has a chance of helping".

I had a friend who had a very to lucky personality but battled depression. He was on Paxil for a year before he killed himself with the pills and some vodka at 19.

[greg271126817]

greg, I have had two friends who had to use a gun to defend their families, both fatally injured the intruder, one is still in the court process of it all.

getting out is usually not an option, first, everyone does not sleep in the same room, second someone is in the house in a location unknown, and third, they do not want you to leave.

the other opened fired through his wall and striking th guy several times.

if they did not have guns to protect themselves, I would probally be attending at least one if not several funerals.

if you haven't been thee, it is easy to judge, but i can tell you both these men did not want to kill anyone, they had little choice.

I agree 100% they had absolutely no choice. If someone is uninvited into your home and posses a threat to you or your family, you have to do what you have to do. I feel there should be absolutely no court process in cases like these. Its a crappy deal being knowing someone who had to shoot to survive a break in, and also someone who didn't have a gun and was shot in their own home. If it were me i would be shooting if possible. But some people feel its ok for someone to break in and do whatever they want to the homeowner. Its almost as if the burglar has more rights in your own home than you do. on the gun restrictions though, what would have happened if your friends were denied access to guns for whatever reason, but the intruder illegally obtained a gun and killed both families? that's the part that really make me mad about gun laws. Bad people will get guns no matter what law you have in place, and it will only hurt the people who want to defend themselves or their family, by possibly not being able to have one. I don't care what laws get put in place, if the government or anybody else asks for my guns, they wont be getting them from me as long as i'm alive. I say if the person trying to get a gun can pass a background check then that's good enough. No need for anything else because criminals don't even need to pass a background check, they just get a readily supply off the streets. Doesn't even matter how old you are. if a 9 year old wanted to get a gun and had the money to get it then i know for a fact they can get one.

[shrewsbury]

not only is he still going through court, but the family of the intruder showed up at his house and were cited for trying to start a riot.

the intruder had a lengthy violent criminal history and was on drugs.

the homeowner is in his late 50's and a law abiding citizen, he has so far had to miss 2 weeks of work for this and it is still not over.

[tpeichel]

I can't comment on the "medicating of young people" because I do not know enough about it, although I am sure it could be a factor. The problem is there are many societal factors that seem to be affecting young men that are being drawn to this behaviour. I just wish the attitudes would change from; 'we can't stop it, so why bother making any changes", to "we have to try everything, even if it only has a chance of helping".

A little more info.

• Overall antidepressant use has gone up 400% from 1996.
• 1 out of 25 12-17 year olds are currently on an antidepressant in the U.S.
• Children and adolescents were not used in the clinical trials needed to get FDA approval of antidepressants.
• A law was passed to give 6 additional months of patent protection for antidepressants if a pharma company completed trials to test the efficacy of antidepressants on children and adolescents. A few companies did this which led to FDA to release black box warnings in 2004 since the adverse events were significant (although no deaths or suicides occurred).
• Most antidepressants are prescribed by a doctor and no evaluation or follow us is done by a psychiatrist.

This info is from an article about Jared Loughner, but could be an explanation for what happened with Adam Lanza:

Because the "sleepwalking" state that Loughner describes is well known to be one of the most dangerous side effects among people taking (or in withdrawal from) SSRI antidepressants like Prozac, I strongly suspect that Loughner has a history of taking these prescription drugs. This extremely dangerous condition in which the patient performs "motor acts while asleep" is caused by long-term deprivation of R.E.M. sleep, the deep dream-filled sleep that is essential for mental health. This condition is caused by the SSRI antidepressants, which affect the serotonin levels in the patient. It is precisely in this sleepwalking state described by Loughner that Prozac patients commit the most horrible and mindless murders of which they are truly "unaware" as they are in a dream state. Andrea Yates, for example, a Houston, Texas mother, drowned her five children thinking she was helping them in 2001. Yates had been taking Effexor at twice the recommended maximum dosage for a month prior to killing her children.
An article on Prozac entitled “Vital Information - Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Luvox and Related Drugs: Are Drugs Good For You?” explains how this condition occurs and what it may result in:

The deepest level of sleep is called REM sleep, which stands for Rapid Eye Motion (the eyes move rapidly in this state). While dreams can occur in other levels of sleep, nightmares usually only occur during REM sleep. According to research reported by Ann Blake Tracy, Ph.D., Prozac and related drugs cause a drastic reduction in REM sleep and many individuals on Prozac start experiencing vivid nightmares. Depriving a person of enough REM sleep over time can cause the reaction of the person going into a REM sleep state while awake. But there is one other factor that is critical in understanding the whole picture. Normally, when asleep, the muscles are weak and more or less paralyzed. You may dream that you are running or moving, but your muscles are still. This is due to a built-in mechanism that causes a person's muscles to remain weak and still during sleep. A study in 1989 showed this paralysis of the muscles during sleep to be related to a particular neurotransmitter. A person on drugs like Prozac can apparently bypass this mechanism and can appear to be alert and awake but actually be in a deep sleep state.

Dr. Tracy documents a case of a person on Prozac who appeared awake and alert but whose brain waves indicated he was actually in deep sleep! Dr. Tracy has documented cases where people in this "sleep walk" state actually had more strength and agility than when awake. Dr. Tracy has documented many cases of former users of Prozac who claim that while on the drug, everything seemed like a dream and unreal. Many users have done things that were completely out of character and have no recollection of them. Many former users liken finally getting off of the drug to waking up from a dream. What seemed to be unexplainable violent acts by individuals on Prozac are now easy to understand:
1) drug effects including altered perception cause the person to have violent thoughts and anger toward those around him;
2) he further has disrupted sleep and vivid nightmares;
3) at some point, the REM sleep deprivation forces him into an REM sleep state while awake; and,
4) because of a bypass of the normal mechanism that causes the muscles to remain still during sleep, he unknowingly acts out the violence of his nightmare in a "sleep walk" state.

[greg271126817]

not only is he still going through court, but the family of the intruder showed up at his house and were cited for trying to start a riot.

the intruder had a lengthy violent criminal history and was on drugs.

the homeowner is in his late 50's and a law abiding citizen, he has so far had to miss 2 weeks of work for this and it is still not over.

That is a waste of time. I think if found not guilty of anything he should be able to sue the city or state (whatever is taking him to court) and get paid for his time missed for work, and also some sort of pain and suffering since his family may be struggling with the lost time at work. Some people have hard time paying bills or other things missing so much work. Even if he has vacation time to use that's still his vacation time not the court systems to go to court for defending his family. If something like this ever happened to me and the family came to my home, they would not like the words or actions i have towards them. i would feel that is a further threat towards the family and they really wouldn't like me coming to my property because their family member had no business in my home. I hope he gets that all worked out. Its unfair to protect your home and be punished for it. I have heard of burglars breaking into a home and falling out a window and breaking their leg and suing the homeowner because of injury. Its a bunch of BS and needs to stop.

[Star_Cards]

I feel the biggest problem with "gun control" discussion is that it seems the sides speaking about it assume that gun control means that the government takes ALL guns away. I assume there are a lot of people that want to do that, but I also assume that most speak of gun control in a much less black and white type of tone. I don't own a gun and never really given owning one much thought, but I think I should have the right to buy one if I felt the need or just had the desire to do so. I don't mind more restriction being placed on gun ownership and nor do I really see a need for people to have assault type weapons. However I also know that just because I don't see a need for one doesn't mean the right should be taken away from me. I think there is a medium that exists that can help limit guns but yet allow people to own them freely. Gun control isn't about taking all guns and the right to own away nor is it about allowing anyone to own any sort of weapon that want simply because they can.

I also feel that gun control reforms isn't really a major thing that can be done to reduce the types of shooting that happened in connecticut. It's really quite a few things that would help prevent these types of massacres. If a person is going to do something like this they will find a way. I'd say there is more value in looking at what causes people to do thing like this rather than look at the tools that they use to do it.

I want to add that while it seems like there have been lots of school shooting or shooting in general as of late, they are still very rare when you look at the odds of something like this happening. That's not to say they shouldn't be looked at and discussed and learned from, but they simply are rare.