NBA finals thread.

[dwadefan]

On Manu's drive, I don't believe that was a foul especially in the last couple of minutes. As I've said before, refs tend to call less fouls near to end because they want to let the players play. Same thing goes for Bosh's block on danny green. I do disagree with what you said about wade, as i am a wade fan. Playing on a deep bone bruise is extremely painful, and he had to deal with that throughout their playoff run. However, as you can see during games 5 and even 7 at times, he was extremely efficient in driving in and challenging San Antonio's bigs. I do respectfully disagree with what you said on his contract, because most teams would want his contract. It is unreasonable for miami to trade him, as he can still play at a top 5-10 level, and he's the superstar in miami. Even though lebron is a better player right now, he basically put miami on the map. Where would the big three be without wade? Don't forget he singlehandedly led miami to the 2006 championship, and had one of the best finals performances of all time then.

[dwadefan]

I do believe it would have been a foul in the first three quarters, no doubt. But in the last couple of minutes, probably not.

[bdoody42]

I never mentioned anything about Wade just Bosh in my post.

On Manu's drive, I don't believe that was a foul especially in the last couple of minutes. As I've said before, refs tend to call less fouls near to end because they want to let the players play. Same thing goes for Bosh's block on danny green. I do disagree with what you said about wade, as i am a wade fan. Playing on a deep bone bruise is extremely painful, and he had to deal with that throughout their playoff run. However, as you can see during games 5 and even 7 at times, he was extremely efficient in driving in and challenging San Antonio's bigs. I do respectfully disagree with what you said on his contract, because most teams would want his contract. It is unreasonable for miami to trade him, as he can still play at a top 5-10 level, and he's the superstar in miami. Even though lebron is a better player right now, he basically put miami on the map. Where would the big three be without wade? Don't forget he singlehandedly led miami to the 2006 championship, and had one of the best finals performances of all time then.

[bdoody42]

To me that is the stupidest logic ever. It's a foul but not in the last couple of minutes.... I didn't know a foul changed during a game....

I do believe it would have been a foul in the first three quarters, no doubt. But in the last couple of minutes, probably not.

[gjorda]

Agreed...I look back to when I played ball. The refs did not call the game any differently in the last couple of minutes than they did in the first couple. As a player, you always had to adjust to the way the refs were calling the game. If they call a foul when you hand checked someone, you simply had to adjust how you guarded them. I know that is always the way it has been in the NBA but still. Same thing with traveling. 3 steps is 3 steps no matter how you look at it. Very exciting series though. I thoroughly enjoyed watching!

To me that is the stupidest logic ever. It's a foul but not in the last couple of minutes.... I didn't know a foul changed during a game....

[bdoody42]

Yeah that logic is pretty stupid to me. It was a great series to watch. Especially game 1,6, and 7. I just wish game 6 didn't have the controversy and refs messing with the end of the game. I always thought getting your arms hit was a foul though :)

Agreed...I look back to when I played ball. The refs did not call the game any differently in the last couple of minutes than they did in the first couple. As a player, you always had to adjust to the way the refs were calling the game. If they call a foul when you hand checked someone, you simply had to adjust how you guarded them. I know that is always the way it has been in the NBA but still. Same thing with traveling. 3 steps is 3 steps no matter how you look at it. Very exciting series though. I thoroughly enjoyed watching!

[cgb_orl]

First, bosh is a legit player. 0 points doesn't matter when you're trying to win a championship. Just like lebron said, nobody's going to remember later on how many points he averaged, or his fg%, they're going to remember that he's a two-time champion (so far). And for the refs, every call is important. Blowing a call in the first couple of quarters is important because it can change the flow of the game. The one's at the end of games seem like they matter more because its the last couple of minutes which can decide the game, but if there are a lot of blown calls in the beginning, it might not even be a close game. And, in close games down the stretch, refs tend to call fouls less and let the players play on. I remember there was a fast break scenario where lebron was fouled, but the refs didnt call anything (this is in the 4th quarter btw).

On that fast break, not only did Lebron throw his elbow (surprise), but Green stripped the ball clean. There was little if no contact other than Lebrons elbow. They still got the initial out of bounds call wrong when it was obvious the ball went out on him. Any replay will validate the whole scenario. It was an offensive foul before anything else.

On Manus drive, Ray reached across to strip him and did get arm first and a lot of it. It was a foul. Whether or not you call it, I'm torn and I'm a Spurs fan. But it was a foul. I doubt Manu would have even hit the FTs but w/e. If he traveled, that's fair too but last I checked that call is liberally used also.

Let's not forget the blown hack call on Rondo the year before.

Regardless, the Heat are now a dynasty because Manu or Kawhi couldn't hit a FT.

[AndyG23]

I think the most telling play was when SA were up 5 with about 38 secs and Lebron missed the 3pt attempt. Three Spurs players went up for the rebound resulting in the ball to be tipped to Miller who got it to Lebron, who drilled the three. All it took was for the Spurs to hold onto that ball and they would have sealed it. So many woulda, coulda, shoulda moments but that one stood out to me the most.

[maxe0213]

On that fast break, not only did Lebron throw his elbow (surprise), but Green stripped the ball clean. There was little if no contact other than Lebrons elbow. They still got the initial out of bounds call wrong when it was obvious the ball went out on him. Any replay will validate the whole scenario. It was an offensive foul before anything else.

On Manus drive, Ray reached across to strip him and did get arm first and a lot of it. It was a foul. Whether or not you call it, I'm torn and I'm a Spurs fan. But it was a foul. I doubt Manu would have even hit the FTs but w/e. If he traveled, that's fair too but last I checked that call is liberally used also.

Let's not forget the blown hack call on Rondo the year before.

Regardless, the Heat are now a dynasty because Manu or Kawhi couldn't hit a FT.

Your most important line. "I'm torn and I'm a Spurs fan."

"If he traveled, that's fair too but last I checked that call is liberally used also." No. A travel is more than two steps. Manu took three. That is a travel and the refs missed it. So if you want to say they missed the foul on the heat, they missed the travel on ginobili. They missed a call for both teams.

I'm still standing by my decision of Manu for finals MVP for being the worst player on the court for much of game 7.

[dwadefan]

If you heard the commentators talking, and watched basketball games, you would see that the refs do in fact call shots a lot differently late in games vs early. If you don't believe me, go rewatch overtime/last couple minutes of game 6. Need more proof? The refs didn't call several plays that should have been fouls early on: manu's drive, bosh on danny green, etc...

In addition, if you don't agree there's no need to be rude and call it "stupid". What's wrong with people having differing opinions than yourself? Isn't that how a debate works?

Back to the point, I see how ray allen's strip of manu should have been a foul, but from the ref's point of view, the only thing he could see is ray allen going in for the ball and then it winding up in his hands. You can't go back and instant replay that, and it's pretty hard to get every call as hard as that one right. Can you imagine what the ref's have to go through, under all that pressure? I feel they did a decent job, and one missed call basically makes everybody call them "biased" and whatnot.