"Scientific proof".

[JustAlex]

OK, this is the thing I actually dread talking about since I am a huge advocate of science....

NOT because I dislike the fact that science doesn't prove or disprove things the way people think it does, but because it's a difficult concept to understand....for anyone.

There are only 2 ways to absolutely prove anything.

#1 Mathematics (e.g. 1+1=2)

#2 Logic (e.g. A=A or A=/=B)



So, what exactly does science do?

Well, science is in the business of conducting experiments to better understand our surroundings, it is empirical and deals with our natural world and universe.


So, when people say "Does science prove evolution to be absolutely true"? or "Can science disprove god?"

The answer for both is: No.

What it does is that it shows a MODEL which is grounded in EVIDENCE in order to come up with a theory about certain phenomenon.

The problem here is that science is ever changing in accordance to new evidence coming in, and the way our reality works, one simply can't say "It is absolutely true that god doesn't exist" or "It is absolutely true that evolution is real".

These things simply don't work that way.

Science relies on models in order to function....simple things like the Atom (which BTW, is NOT absolutely true or "proven") but are necessary in order to explain our reality.

Gravity is another.....it is NOT absolutely true or "proven", but we need it in order to make sense of things.


So what about god?

Is god needed to make sense of things?

Well, this is where people will see things many different ways.....science tries to leave god outside of their equations, because the way god is defined is by a "supernatural" way which utterly defy what we already know and understand of our natural world and universe.

However, the people who believe in god are not foolish or wrong for doing so, they simply are taking an easy way out in order to make their lives easier to understand and it also answers many difficult questions.

Personally, I'm willing to wait for more evidence to come in, in order to make up my mind about such things.

[ajbrinn]

The following is actually incorrect.

There are only 2 ways to absolutely prove anything.

#1 Mathematics (e.g. 1+1=2)

#2 Logic (e.g. A=A or A=/=B)

There are many times when 1+1 doesn't always equal 2 or 2+2 equal 4. Your logic is flawed my friend as mathematics and logic prove nothing absolutely.

[dadandsoncards]

Wow how your "logic" is so inaccurate. Please don't make any suggestions on topics you have no idea about. You are so simple minded that I pity you. Christians take the easy way out? Really? We make tough choices based on faith and we take the easy way out? We dedicate our lives on a promise and love and we take the easy way out? Shouldn't it be the other way around where as you don't make choices on faith, just on what feels good at the time. Maybe you should go to church for a bit, read the bible and really study it, not just the words but the meanings, otherwise please don't degrade yourself. But don't worry one day you will be burning for eternity but I will pray for you.

[JustAlex]

The following is actually incorrect.

There are only 2 ways to absolutely prove anything.

#1 Mathematics (e.g. 1+1=2)

#2 Logic (e.g. A=A or A=/=B)

There are many times when 1+1 doesn't always equal 2 or 2+2 equal 4. Your logic is flawed my friend as mathematics and logic prove nothing absolutely.

By all means please show me ONE time when 1+1 doesn't equal 2.

And BTW, I hope you understand that mathematics is the only thing which humans can rely on to be unchanging.

NEVER will a 1 be a 2 at the same time....

And that deals with logic as well.

"A" CAN NOT equal "B".....this is the law of non-contradiction.

"A" MUST equal "A".....this is the law of identity.

It seems to me, you don't even know the basic laws of logic....

[JustAlex]

Wow how your "logic" is so inaccurate. Please don't make any suggestions on topics you have no idea about. You are so simple minded that I pity you. Christians take the easy way out? Really? We make tough choices based on faith and we take the easy way out? We dedicate our lives on a promise and love and we take the easy way out? Shouldn't it be the other way around where as you don't make choices on faith, just on what feels good at the time.

First of all, I never said "Christians take the easy way out" I said "people that believe in god take the easy way out" that includes all theists.

The reason they take the "easy way out" is because they assign an unknown to god.

As of this moment, there isn't a single human on this planet that KNOWS how everything came to be.

This is therefore an "Unknown".

Scientists are looking for the answers, they are NOT quick to assign an unknown to any entity.....that's why it's an UNKNOWN.

Theists, have no problems saying "well since we don't know, it must have been god".

That is the easy way out of a difficult problem.

Maybe you should go to church for a bit, read the bible and really study it, not just the words but the meanings, otherwise please don't degrade yourself.

I was a christian for 15 years, I went to church plenty of times and I've read the bible almost cover to cover and yes that includes studying it.

But don't worry one day you will be burning for eternity but I will pray for you.

How very christian of you.

Why will I be burning for eternity? For asking questions? For having doubts?

Don't worry about me, I don't require your prayers or threats of hell.

[ajbrinn]

By all means please show me ONE time when 1+1 doesn't equal 2.

Using the binary number system 1+1 = 10

The ball is in your court, I will await your retort.

[ajbrinn]

"A" CAN NOT equal "B".....this is the law of non-contradiction.

"A" MUST equal "A".....this is the law of identity.

It seems to me, you don't even know the basic laws of logic....

Since I have already easily disproven you once with the 1+1 incident I think it shows I will leave it up to you to do research into seeing how your above statement is flawed.

[WilyWestbrook0]

I know we've all been frustrated by Alex before, but in his defense, ajbrinn, that is not the context to which he's referring. We all know that 1+1 always equals 2 in the strict observational sense. He is correct about that.

[JustAlex]

Using the binary number system 1+1 = 10

The ball is in your court, I will await your retort.

So, when we talk about observational properties such as one orange and another orange.....will that ever be other than 2 oranges?

Can this EVER change?

If not, would you say that it is ABSOLUTELY true that if we observe one orange and another orange it will ALWAYS equal 2 oranges?

Since I have already easily disproven you once with the 1+1 incident I think it shows I will leave it up to you to do research into seeing how your above statement is flawed.

Dude, you didn't disprove anything.

1+1 will ALWAYS equal 2.

Binary is a system where 2 doesn't exist and therefore it is assigned a different number to represent 2.

1+1 =10 in binary because 2 is non-existent....however 10 STILL = 2

Go ahead and try to disprove logic.....that's so illogical that if you were a robot you would've already self destructed.

[ajbrinn]

I know we've all been frustrated by Alex before, but in his defense, ajbrinn, that is not the context to which he's referring. We all know that 1+1 always equals 2 in the strict observational sense. He is correct about that.

" in the strict observational sense?"

Really? Seriously? Just because you use those words doesn't make him correct, it just shows there was enough depth of thought put into his questioning. There is nothing correct with what he said I just proved that.