Panini done?

[Wickabee]

Most of the collectors that don't get excited about Panini Parallels, were not collectors when Pacific did the same thing. Pacific parallels were and are still beautiful, and ate UD lunches daily.

Pacific fades away and 2 years later so many of you all of a sudden become Hockey Collectors? You started at a time when there was only one manufacturer (Upper Deck), and somehow you feel the right to defend them, when in essence they have not been very generous in providing interesting cards not enough of them based on the price you are paying.

Panini comes along and has parallels that would generate some interest if your schtick was not about protecting Upper Deck for some obscure reason.

Ok just stop. I'm not defending UD or attacking Panini, or Pacific, or your way of life, or anything else. I'm saying if a company produces 10 sets that all have /999, /699, /499, /299, /199, /100, /99, /75, /50, /25, /10, /5, /3, /1, suddenly those all become /9990, /6990, /4990, /2990, /1990, /1000, /990, /750, /500, /250, /100, /50, /30, /10 for each player who is featured in every set. While I do like 1 or 2 sets with extensive rainbows, Panini overdoes it in my opinion.

That is in no way a defense or attack of anything.

[robu84]

the only good choice they could have done is to give all 3 the license and limit the sets to 3-4 per company. if UD gets the monopoly it sucks big time. The worst hit is for the box breakers as we will end up getting less for our money.

[Korkki]

I hate the thing that there are Gretzkys and Bures or other retired stars in basically every product. The checklists are too way limited to certain players now. OK, there are gazillion RC's of every two-minutes-on-ice player but in the future the next cards came if the player rises to first line player.

In 90es the product was a lot better. There were many producers and the rookie card amounts were quite limited and mostly in cards from junior tournaments.

The amount of collectors in Finland has been decreasing. There are some collectors who spend more and more money, but some will end the collecting because of different issues and there aren't new collectors coming to replace them. That's because the start is too hard now; prices are too high and prints are too limited (they depend on each other).

My solution would be (yeah, probably it is too late):
- Limit the amount of NHL series to five per producer
- Limit the amount of cards to 20 per individual player (that is 4 per product - still even too many)
- Limit the amount of limited print run cards as minimum of 25 copies in 4 of the 5 allowed products
- Free the rookie card making so that a card with a player in national junior team could be a RC again.
- Remove the exclusivity so that everyone who can pay the certain license amount can produce a set. (how there even can be exclusive rights in USA? In the land of freedom...)

[sedinfan]

Most of the collectors that don't get excited about Panini Parallels, were not collectors when Pacific did the same thing. Pacific parallels were and are still beautiful, and ate UD lunches daily.

I was a collector when Pacific was around, was not excited by their parallels or really most of their sets at all (flagship Pacific, Complete, Exhibit, Atomic, Adrenaline, Heads Up were all pretty mediocre efforts at least in the years my PC guys were in them, the only set I found appealing was Private Stock). Of course there was far less game-used material, so the parallels were restricted to some strangely numbered sets (always seemed a bit weird to me to produce x/108, x/106, and x/100 parallels in the same set, or two x/62 parallels in the same set - one numbered on the front the other on the back).

Pacific fades away and 2 years later so many of you all of a sudden become Hockey Collectors? You started at a time when there was only one manufacturer (Upper Deck), and somehow you feel the right to defend them, when in essence they have not been very generous in providing interesting cards not enough of them based on the price you are paying.

I'm sure you're not seriously saying that people don't have the right to their own opinions and to voice them... or are you? I don't think it's anyone's place to say who has the "right" to voice whatever their opinion is - I know I'm often entertained by your posts, some I agree with, others I disagree with, but this board would be a very boring place if everyone had to share the same opinions. There are some who feel everything Upper Deck is awesome, and every Panini product sucks - I'm not one of them... on aggregate I'm disappointed in a lot of what Panini has put out to date, but certainly UD has had some duds and Panini has had some hits.

Panini comes along and has parallels that would generate some interest if your schtick was not about protecting Upper Deck for some obscure reason.

I certainly don't feel I have a "schtick about protecting Upper Deck" - not sure if this was directed at me or folks in general, but I feel no attachment or need to protect UD. Expressing distaste for excess parallels from one manufacturer does not equal "protection" for the other in my mind. For me it all started with Panini's earlier products, i.e. 10-11 Certified where they had two cards: a base and a Fabric of the Game, both of which were very unattractive IMO and 19 parallels of the former plus 9 parallels of the latter. Then there was Luxury suite, one ugly base jersey card and 14 parallels. Panini's improved somewhat since then, but not enough in my mind.

I don't get it. I don't bust wax, but I am not a fool. Panini has, and is building cards, that in their base sets designs are far superior to anything UD has ever made, yet they get no support.

I think Panini's made a handful of nice base cards - loved Crown Royale (especially 10-11... 11-12 was nice too but nearly a copy of the previous year) - and while the base cards in 12-13 Certified were dull this is one set where I actually liked the parallels, they 'only' made 5 colours in the rainbow and they were gorgeous. Other than that I haven't really been impressed with any of their base set designs, but always curious which ones other people like - what catches your eye?

The last nicely designed UD card made, was the 99-00 SP Authentic FW Rookie Cards #/2000, prior to that the 97-98 SP base set.

I'd agree UD hasn't had many beautifully designed sets either... a few that I like are 07-08 BD, 09-10 Premier, 10-11 Artifacts... most years their flagship UD set is decent if not overly inspired... glad they stopped producing MVP as a standalone set as that was horrible most years IMO.

Panini's Prizm this year, and Select are far superior to anything UD has designed in it's history, by a very wide margin. There's room for 5-10 card companies to have licenses, the NHL and NHLPA only shoots itself in the groin for not providing these opportunities, and this decision is out of collector's hands.

Not a fan of Prizm at all, but I'd agree Select is one of their better efforts - the card stock and finish is really nice.

I'm with you on having even more companies having licenses - really don't think the market is large enough to support 10 companies each with several releases, but 4 or 5 companies doing 4 or 5 releases apiece would be great. I think each company would then be able to focus more on design and making appealing subsets / inserts, and the competition would likely push them to be better.

Specifically for Panini, I think they could do a few pretty solid sets if that's what they focused on... as things stand right now though with 11 releases mostly chalk full of parallels I just think the few good things they put out get dwarfed by the flood of completely un-creative parallels they produce for nearly every card they make. At best we get jersey, prime, patch parallels, at worst we get - and this is no exaggeration - Platinum Red, Platinum Blue, Platinum Gold, Platinum Green, Platinum Black, Mirror Red, Mirror Blue, Mirror Gold, Mirror Green, Mirror Black, Signatures Gold, Signatures Green, Signatures Black, Materials Red, Materials Blue, Materials Prime Gold, Materials Patch Green, Materials Black Prime, Materials Ice Prime.

[centrehice]

Ok just stop. I'm not defending UD or attacking Panini, or Pacific, or your way of life, or anything else. I'm saying if a company produces 10 sets that all have /999, /699, /499, /299, /199, /100, /99, /75, /50, /25, /10, /5, /3, /1, suddenly those all become /9990, /6990, /4990, /2990, /1990, /1000, /990, /750, /500, /250, /100, /50, /30, /10 for each player who is featured in every set. While I do like 1 or 2 sets with extensive rainbows, Panini overdoes it in my opinion.

That is in no way a defense or attack of anything.

The comment was not made about you.

[centrehice]

Pacific Parallels were wonderful. Holo Emerald, Ice Blue, etc ….. Vanguard parallels are still the nicest made. If you are a GU person, then of course you aren't going to like anything Pacific makes, I disdain Game-Used cards. To each his own.

Atomic Parallels and Vanguard parallels were far superior to anything Private Stock. Titanium 00-01 was also a much better looking parallel than Private Stock.

Regardless, Pacific produced parallels, UD mass produced uninteresting Insert Cards during the same time. Other than SP Game Film and SP Icons Embossed, UD has not produced anything ancillary that is the least bit interesting.

[Wickabee]

The comment was not made about you.

Just immediately after my post about what you were talking about. Got it.

Quotes help.

[sedinfan]

Pacific Parallels were wonderful. Holo Emerald, Ice Blue, etc ….. Vanguard parallels are still the nicest made. If you are a GU person, then of course you aren't going to like anything Pacific makes, I disdain Game-Used cards. To each his own.

I'm having fun now going back through ebay and looking at listings for some of these older cards to see what I missed during that era - seems that I may have been a bit unlucky in that the cards Pacific did make of the Sedins were some of their poorer efforts. The only Vanguard parallels I have are the 00-01 High Voltage subset which I find hideous, but definitely there are some nicer Vanguard cards out there - the 02-03 Prime Prospects set looks outstanding!

Atomic Parallels and Vanguard parallels were far superior to anything Private Stock. Titanium 00-01 was also a much better looking parallel than Private Stock.

Oh yah, Titanium 00-01 was pretty decent, not nearly as fond of the subsequent releases, but definitely the 00-01 year was nice. Same for Private Stock, I think 00-01 was their best year, I still like the 01-02, but for whatever reason 00-01 has always been one of my favourite sets.

Regardless, Pacific produced parallels, UD mass produced uninteresting Insert Cards during the same time. Other than SP Game Film and SP Icons Embossed, UD has not produced anything ancillary that is the least bit interesting.

Yeah, you know looking back, it's funny that UD seemed to get better during their monopoly era (as long as you don't mind some GU cards...), I'd tend to agree that they weren't as interesting back in the Pacific era. Not that everything they did post-lockout was good though - I may be in the minority but I think the 05-06 Cup ARP's are some of the least attractive cards out there.

[thorni2]

the only good choice they could have done is to give all 3 the license and limit the sets to 3-4 per company. if UD gets the monopoly it sucks big time. The worst hit is for the box breakers as we will end up getting less for our money.

You are absolutely wrong here, the return for case breakers is better with no Panini out there.

[piper1]

This thread has clearly demonstrated that some of you are no different than the card companies and the NHLPA that you are complaining about. In my opinion there are too many on this site who care more about their financial bottom line than the collectors on this site. It is truly a sad state for the hobby when the collectors get attacked by the aforementioned individuals for their opinions regarding products, and if you disagree with my post go back and read the entire thread.