What would you do?

[Fred Bear]

A man walks into a dealership. They have a very rare 1 of a kind car for sale on the lot.

A salesman spends an hour trying to sell the card to buyer A. After some back and forth negotiations, they settle to sell the car for $25,000. As they walk inside, about to sit down and finalize things, another man bursts in the door and says, "I will give you $35,000 cash for that 1 of a kind car".

If you like to play hypotheticals ... atleast make them have to do with what your referring to. This is not marriage, that has no $$$ value. A car, or object X, that does have a value can be a fair comparison.

If you are going to criticize someone, then at least make your example bulletproof. Creating a mythical situation to illustrate your point is good, if you can get away with it, I suppose...

For starters, a 1-of-a-kind card sells probably an order of magnitude higher than where you're suggesting. Take a look at some of the Barrett Jackson auctions and educate yourself. For a one-of-a-kind vehicle, it's much more likely that an offer would have been $250,000-$350,000. You're probably thinking that's even better to illustrate your point, I mean who wouldn't walk out on a handshake-agreement for $100,000?

That's the second problem with your example, a dealership. Sticking to the 'business' aspect which has become a popular avenue, while in your example $10,000 is a lot of money to you and I, it's not to a card dealership. Their annual sales numbers, for the most part, are probably in the millions. So will a dealership screw-over a potential repeat customer for less than 1% of their annual revenue? Doubtful at best.

Now think of it from the 'social' side. Is a buyer really that impudent? No. If they are walking in to sign the papers and the dealership backs out, what is the customer going to do? Better Business Bureau, Yelp, Facebook, the buyer is going to shred the dealership's reputation. So now ask the previous 'business' side question again - will a dealership screw-over a potential repeat customer for less than 1% of their annual revenue AND a potential loss of annual revenue due to bad publicity? Never is a long time, but the number of dealership's willing to do this is probably pretty small.

Your example does do a good job of pointing out one thing. While the behavior might not be 'wrong' per se, it's short-sighted. It doesn't consider the positive outcomes of long-term thinking. As you posted earlier, you could care less if your actions upset someone online, but do it enough and you're the one who loses. Is an extra $5 or $10 bucks on the sale of a card worth it? What happens when the collector 'you could care less about making mad' pulls your white whale? Think he'll sell to you $5 or $10 higher or will he just tell you to 'pound sand'? As another poster mentions, he's young and says 'his opinion might change as he gets older'. That defines short-sighted. I'd encourage them to think it through... if 'maximizing' is important because you don't have what you want now, how's it going to affect you down the road. Collector's are nostalgic folk with long memories. They can tell vivid stories of a pack/box break or a show from 30 years ago. Think they'll remember a trade gone wrong from 2-5 years ago? Sedinfan's post is awesome - you might spend a little more once in a while, but treat people right and they become willing to help you without question. That's some sage advice.

[30ranfordfan]

Great Post!

I've had the same thing happen (agree to buy, then find it cheaper) many times too. Do I like getting the best deal possible? Sure. I also like dealing with people I know, and have a bit of a relationship with.

I'd say I'm of the old school 'man's word is his bond' variety, while I'm not much of a seller I have been on the buying side numerous times where I'll have a tentative deal in place only to find the card cheaper for BIN on ebay, but once I've committed I follow through and buy the card no matter what. I end up with the occasional overpriced tradebait but that doesn't bother me in the least... I've made friends who won't hesitate to pick up a card they know i need when they see it at a show because they know I'll treat them right, and even send it ahead of time and just let me know to pay them whenever... to me that's worth infinitely more than making the best possible deal.

I think the age old advice to treat others the way you'd want to be treated is really the best approach, and that's how I choose to approach this wonderful hobby.

[kylemclaren7]

Rapport is something I'll pay more for or give a deal because of. I'll fully agree to that.

[Drewk86a]

A man walks into a dealership. They have a very rare 1 of a kind car for sale on the lot.

A salesman spends an hour trying to sell the card to buyer A. After some back and forth negotiations, they settle to sell the car for $25,000. As they walk inside, about to sit down and finalize things, another man bursts in the door and says, "I will give you $35,000 cash for that 1 of a kind car".

If you like to play hypotheticals ... atleast make them have to do with what your referring to. This is not marriage, that has no $$$ value. A car, or object X, that does have a value can be a fair comparison.

Your example is much better than mine. I tried to go to an extreme and while there is no money in marriage (some would argue there is a loss of money) there is a huge emotional investment. It was late and that was the best my fatigued mind could come up with.

The dealer should tell the 2nd man, "I'm sorry, but that car has already been sold." based on the fact that the dealer and first guy had struck a deal to sell the car for $25,000. Paperwork not done, but a deal had been made.

[canucksfan007]

Your example is much better than mine. I tried to go to an extreme and while there is no money in marriage (some would argue there is a loss of money) there is a huge emotional investment. It was late and that was the best my fatigued mind could come up with.

The dealer should tell the 2nd man, "I'm sorry, but that car has already been sold." based on the fact that the dealer and first guy had struck a deal to sell the car for $25,000. Paperwork not done, but a deal had been made.

What the dealer should do, and most likely would do are very different things =). Maybe I am using an old stereotype of car salesmen .... but someone that works a commission based job is most likely not going to turn down the commission on another $10,000.

[canucksfan007]

If you are going to criticize someone, then at least make your example bulletproof. Creating a mythical situation to illustrate your point is good, if you can get away with it, I suppose...

For starters, a 1-of-a-kind card sells probably an order of magnitude higher than where you're suggesting. Take a look at some of the Barrett Jackson auctions and educate yourself. For a one-of-a-kind vehicle, it's much more likely that an offer would have been $250,000-$350,000. You're probably thinking that's even better to illustrate your point, I mean who wouldn't walk out on a handshake-agreement for $100,000?

That's the second problem with your example, a dealership. Sticking to the 'business' aspect which has become a popular avenue, while in your example $10,000 is a lot of money to you and I, it's not to a card dealership. Their annual sales numbers, for the most part, are probably in the millions. So will a dealership screw-over a potential repeat customer for less than 1% of their annual revenue? Doubtful at best.

Now think of it from the 'social' side. Is a buyer really that impudent? No. If they are walking in to sign the papers and the dealership backs out, what is the customer going to do? Better Business Bureau, Yelp, Facebook, the buyer is going to shred the dealership's reputation. So now ask the previous 'business' side question again - will a dealership screw-over a potential repeat customer for less than 1% of their annual revenue AND a potential loss of annual revenue due to bad publicity? Never is a long time, but the number of dealership's willing to do this is probably pretty small.

Your example does do a good job of pointing out one thing. While the behavior might not be 'wrong' per se, it's short-sighted. It doesn't consider the positive outcomes of long-term thinking. As you posted earlier, you could care less if your actions upset someone online, but do it enough and you're the one who loses. Is an extra $5 or $10 bucks on the sale of a card worth it? What happens when the collector 'you could care less about making mad' pulls your white whale? Think he'll sell to you $5 or $10 higher or will he just tell you to 'pound sand'? As another poster mentions, he's young and says 'his opinion might change as he gets older'. That defines short-sighted. I'd encourage them to think it through... if 'maximizing' is important because you don't have what you want now, how's it going to affect you down the road. Collector's are nostalgic folk with long memories. They can tell vivid stories of a pack/box break or a show from 30 years ago. Think they'll remember a trade gone wrong from 2-5 years ago? Sedinfan's post is awesome - you might spend a little more once in a while, but treat people right and they become willing to help you without question. That's some sage advice.

Sorry, but the make, model, type of car does not really matter in my point. I am no car expert, and have really never had any interest in cars beyond the fact that they get me from point A to point B .... so the amount of zeros a one of a kind car has attached to it doesnt really matter. Educate myself? Thats like quoting a bunch of random LoL or WoW stuff you most likely have no clue about, and when you respond I nit pick your answer to no end .... on yes, a hypothetical scenario.

$10,000 is a good chunk of change, no matter who you are. Is the sales person looking out for #1 ( himself ), or is he more likely to look past this and work for the good of the company, one that you say, already makes millions a year. I find it hard to believe anyone really works for the love of the company they work for.

I am in hospitality, understand the importance of customer service and understand that the customer can really go anywhere, spend the rough same amount of money and get the same services. For the most part, the only thing that separates anyone is their people skills and customer service. You also have to understand, there are some people that will never be satisfied, and will do anything to save a couple bucks. Even if you handle a situation perfectly, there's no way you can stop this person from bad mouthing you any way they can. I also understand that you really have to take what people say with a grain of salt. I understand most people dont do this, but there are always 2 sides to the story, not just the side with the loudest voice.

And to answer your question, I have burnt bridges with members on this site. Compared to the amount of people I have dealt with, the number is very small. I accept this is going to happen. I butt heads with people, some butt heads with people even more so than myself .... I just cant keep my mouth shut in certain situations. You dont have to deal with someone you dont get along with, or someone you burnt a bridge with in order to get that 1/1 white whale they just pulled. Like I said above, there are far more people that wouldnt mind doing me a favor, opposed to those that 100% pretend I am not there. In this case ( which is something I have actually done ) I ask one of those people to simply buy the card for me, and I will pay them for it. Pretty simple solution, if somebody wants to be childish and not sell you a card based on spite, then I will find ways around your childish actions. I did a S&T thread with the card I had just bought, very happy with my new found whale, and believe the member that bought it for me got some backlash from the seller. Our opinion on the seller was ... in his mind, no one is going to be good enough to deal with him, and he will soon find himself with a blocked list longer than a friends list.

I believe we all do what Sedinfan has done. If we want a card for our PC, and the price is within reason ..... we have all happily overspent for a card that was going to their PC. Ive actually experienced the flip side to this. Whenever I ask this seller how much he needs for card X now, his prices with me I find are through the roof, because I WAS willing to overspent on a card I really wanted with him before. I have inquired about a good 5 - 10 cards since our original purchase, and have not made a single other purchase as most quotes I get are 25% - 35% above ebay high. Show a person your willing to spend money, and watch prices rise. Its like those traveling commercials. A couple tries to stay hush hush about the great flight / hotel package they got in order to get to their destination as they walk down the street. A local vendor overhears them talking, and when the couple inquires about his goods, he jacks up the price.

[icefields]

i would be interested to find if peoples opinion remained the same AFTER reading all the posts and then voting.
i thought i knew the answer right away but after reading thru peoples comment now i have some doubt. most people make very valid cases for each option. and situations do occur that would affect my response.


example - i sent an offer to a member regarding a few items. he accepted my offer and said he'd post when he got home from work.fine with me. thought we had a deal. didnt hear from him for 2 days, didnt want to pm him cause people do have lives off the boards.when he finally got back to me 2 of the cards in our original deal were "no longer available". he didnt say why and i didnt ask. needless to say i decided against doing "business" with him. to me in essence he broke our deal. he didnt lie, he didnt cheat, he simply broke the deal.life works like that sometimes.i dont hate him, i wont ruin his reputation and i will deal with him in the future but i will squeeze him more in our next deal. i generally try to give more than i take but with him that rule will not apply.

honesty and integrity are great words but mean different things to different people. thats not a SAD reality its just the way it is. this is 2014 and people think differently then they did "way back when".

not being perfect i cant expect perfection from others.

in the end we all reap what we sow. so i hope to sow my definition of honesty and with integrity. anger is a wasted emotion. hate is useless. it breeds a cancer inside of us that only harms ourselves.

boy i reread that and it sounds kinda corny. but thats how i choose to live

[kylemclaren7]

i would be interested to find if peoples opinion remained the same AFTER reading all the posts and then voting.
i thought i knew the answer right away but after reading thru peoples comment now i have some doubt. most people make very valid cases for each option. and situations do occur that would affect my response.


example - i sent an offer to a member regarding a few items. he accepted my offer and said he'd post when he got home from work.fine with me. thought we had a deal. didnt hear from him for 2 days, didnt want to pm him cause people do have lives off the boards.when he finally got back to me 2 of the cards in our original deal were "no longer available". he didnt say why and i didnt ask. needless to say i decided against doing "business" with him. to me in essence he broke our deal. he didnt lie, he didnt cheat, he simply broke the deal.life works like that sometimes.i dont hate him, i wont ruin his reputation and i will deal with him in the future but i will squeeze him more in our next deal. i generally try to give more than i take but with him that rule will not apply.

honesty and integrity are great words but mean different things to different people. thats not a SAD reality its just the way it is. this is 2014 and people think differently then they did "way back when".

not being perfect i cant expect perfection from others.

in the end we all reap what we sow. so i hope to sow my definition of honesty and with integrity. anger is a wasted emotion. hate is useless. it breeds a cancer inside of us that only harms ourselves.

boy i reread that and it sounds kinda corny. but thats how i choose to live

See that's not something even close to what I would do; that is underhanded and bad business. If I tell someone I'll post up a deal tonight, I'm posting it up TONIGHT. 10000% of the time. If between now and then someone offers me double what the first guy did, I'll tell the second off straight up I'm going to see if GUY A will match. If he can't I'll explain to him what happened and almost always will say "hey, I've got a good memory. You see something you need from me I'll give you $xxx off of my asking price, or say they're a habs fan, I'll ask for their mailing address and send them some cards for free, just as a thank you for their time.

[Gibby]

100% go with the original deal no if and or buts

A great reputation does not come cheap in fact it costs both time and $$$$ but pays off 100 fold in the long run

[rydlar99]

Original Deal, and I've put my $ where my mouth is:

I was actually put in this position almost 2 years ago. On release day for 11-12 The Cup I hit a stunning Scheifele ARP /99, easily the best out there at the time with a big chunk of the Maple Leaf. I listed it on theBay at, what I thought was, an extraordinarily high BIN OBO (I think around $2K).. someone hit BIN within 5 minutes and paid ASAP, I was very happy. One hour later I get an email from another collector (local) offering me nearly double the amount, in cash.

Needless to say, I've never experienced such stress around a card in my life. I contacted the original buyer, and informed him of the situation and that I was going to honour the original deal, but to let him know what I was passing up. I could have easily gotten the card 'lost' and refunded the money. All I got was "good" from the original buyer. Not quite as satisfying as an extra $XXXX but, still it was the right thing to do.

Darryl