First Look: 2014-15 In The Game Heroes & Prospects

[TRDouble]

The first price I have seen on this is at Blowout and they are charging $129.95... OUCH!

Compared to an ITG H&P box at full price where you at least got 4 hits, I guess it's not a loss in value to get 9 hits at a less than 50% price increase (but no base or subsets). The price still gives me a bit of pause on buying it, even with the limited productions. Actually, the limited production gives me even more pause; this may be a, 'buy a box, eBay the rest of what you want,' type of product because if it does sell out, you won't be building any sets through buying boxes.

I am not a fan of the design either, but I have seen some bad designs online before that look worlds better in person. So, I probably will not pre-order, but if I see them available locally (unlike Leaf Metal), I may try a box. Not a fan of the airbrushing either, but without it, it forced ITG to use a lot of blurry or grainy pictures, and a lot of the same pictures over and over too. So I am a bit torn on this.

It's hard to get mad at Leaf for what they are doing. The last few years (or more) of ITG Heroes & Prospects and BTP have reached the level of buying a box just to scratch that collecting itch because the boxes have dropped dramatically in price and are so cheap. I love BTP and 2007/08 is what got me back into collecting (it was cheap then too!), but $33 a box is the equivalent of giving it away in collecting and they still aren't moving. And it's not just this year either. At least Leaf is keeping the brand a live in some form. Something needed to be done with both brands and Leaf is doing that.

It all comes back to ITG losing (having it ripped away from them?) the AHL license. It made for much more diverse products. You could collect your teams prospects in the CHL, AHL and Internationally, along with any heroes your team had in there. And it was fun to look back through the collection and see AHL autos from players like Pekka Rinne and Jonathan Quick. But I have no desire to buy a purely AHL release.

[Sharky94]

The reason Prospect cards dont do well on the secondary market is really simple, and it has nothing to do with the design, cost, etc. It has everything to do with the fact that you are making cards of players -- many of whom will never make it to the big leagues (doesn't matter what sport). So after a year or two, you have a large portion of the players in the box who are already worthless because people realize that these guys will either never have an NHL career or will never play above the 4th line.

So by going to a hits-only format, all you are doing is increasing the cost of those cards that will be worthless in a couple years. Who cares if you have a really cool 1-of-1 auto or four-color patch card? If that player never makes it in the NHL, it is still worthless. So now you have wasted $100 instead of just $50. At least providing base cards of all the players, people could collect their team, so that when that guy gets called up for his cup of coffee, you can have a card available to get signed at practice. I will buy minor league commons just for the chance to get an autograph on my own. I do not buy jersey/auto cards of minor leaguers.

Besides, I do not buy "hits-only" boxes. I am a cheap skate and refuse to play the lottery that way. In all honesty, I have never paid over $100 for a box of cards. I may be in the minority in some places, but I cannot justify paying $10 or more a card without knowing what I am getting. I am more than happy for others to take the chance and me getting them off Ebay. I actually enjoy opening up packs and looking at the different players. I guess I am just too Old Fashioned for today's current market.

[eliteco3]

This looks like a disaster waiting to happen. Pass for sure

[TRDouble]

I do not normally spend over $100 for a box of cards myself, usually limiting it to once a year with UD SPA (which I used to get for sub-$100). And I haven't done that in the last two years. If I do spend that much, it has to be on something I find special, like ITG's Lord Stanley's Mug. I had some extra cash a couple years ago and bought my only box of SP Game-Used... UGH!

I like base cards, but I think if done right, Hits Only boxes can work. And because of the lack of a license, I think (thought?) ITG really perfected that format with some very unique releases, like Decades 1980s, Decades: The 90s, Stickwork, and Captain-C. All Hits, all initially sub-$100 product. Higher end, ITGame-Used (was that sub-$100?) and Lord Stanley's Mug were good to me too.

But those worked because they were heavy on the Legends and Stars. Heroes & Prospects (and Draft Prospects) are not. So that does not work in this product's favor either. 2014 Draft Prospects only had 300 12 box cases produced -- 100 more that 2015 H&P -- with fewer hits and I can get a box of that for less than $50.

Makes me wonder how this will fare and if it will be the end of the road for H&P.

Since I have only been buying old stuff and nothing from this year, I may still it a try, for old time's sake.

[30ranfordfan]

I do not normally spend over $100 for a box of cards myself, usually limiting it to once a year with UD SPA (which I used to get for sub-$100). And I haven't done that in the last two years. If I do spend that much, it has to be on something I find special, like ITG's Lord Stanley's Mug. I had some extra cash a couple years ago and bought my only box of SP Game-Used... UGH!

I like base cards, but I think if done right, Hits Only boxes can work. And because of the lack of a license, I think (thought?) ITG really perfected that format with some very unique releases, like Decades 1980s, Decades: The 90s, Stickwork, and Captain-C. All Hits, all initially sub-$100 product. Higher end, ITGame-Used (was that sub-$100?) and Lord Stanley's Mug were good to me too.

But those worked because they were heavy on the Legends and Stars. Heroes & Prospects (and Draft Prospects) are not. So that does not work in this product's favor either. 2014 Draft Prospects only had 300 12 box cases produced -- 100 more that 2015 H&P -- with fewer hits and I can get a box of that for less than $50.

Makes me wonder how this will fare and if it will be the end of the road for H&P.

Since I have only been buying old stuff and nothing from this year, I may still it a try, for old time's sake.

This looks like a disaster waiting to happen. Pass for sure

Before judging this product, I would really hold out for a checklist, odds, etc.

The lack of a base set will be a problem for some - but who are the autos and memorabilia cards going to be? Leaf / ITG blow UD away in terms of GU memorabilia, when it comes to retired stars & HOFers. Autograph content might be really strong. If they go away from the formula of the last couple of years where most of the Autos were prospects.... if it gets closer to 50/50, these boxes may have great value.

The other thing is - how many of these prospects are 2016 first round prospects? Jakob Chuchrun or Tyler Benson or Adam Mascherin are probably not going to be HUGE pulls when this comes out.... because most people are focused on 2015 prospects. When next fall hits, and we're talking (again) about prospective high picks - if one or two of those players seperates themselves from the rest of the pack early, they have the potential to become really hot cards, really quick.

[jsokol1626]

The more I think about the idea of combining 2 products that couldn't stand alone the less convinced I am that this is a good idea. A 'hits only' concept, historically, has had adverse affects on the value of the cards. SPGU is an excellent example. Likewise, low print run memorabilia has little affect on value unless it is limited throughout the market. For example, I'm not willing to spend a lot of money to get a Brodeur, Sakic or Yzerman jersey with a limited production of 10 because there are plenty of those jerseys available at low cost. A Vezina piece, on the other hand, would get my attention. Now the question becomes, how much am I willing to spend for a chance at a long shot? On the Prospects side of the equation, as someone else pointed out, why would I can about a low print run piece of a player who has very limited potential?

So, as I see it, this product hast to overcome four big challenges in order to succeed: First, it must produce enough value to satisfy the average collector; Second, it must convince the prospects collector to accept veteran and retired goalies; Thirdly, it must convince goalie collectors to accept skaters; Fourth, Leaf must be correct in it's assumption that their niche in the hobby is higher end boxes.

After 50+ posts in this thread I don't see a lot of excitement.

[jsokol1626]

"Leaf / ITG blow UD away in terms of GU memorabilia, when it comes to retired stars & HOFers." This is a true statement and is based entirely upon target markets. UD's appeal is rookie cards and a price point focused in the $50-100 range. ITG/Leaf have focused on prospects and history. There is no reason for the companies to go 'head to head'.

[30ranfordfan]

The more I think about the idea of combining 2 products that couldn't stand alone the less convinced I am that this is a good idea. A 'hits only' concept, historically, has had adverse affects on the value of the cards. SPGU is an excellent example. Likewise, low print run memorabilia has little affect on value unless it is limited throughout the market. For example, I'm not willing to spend a lot of money to get a Brodeur, Sakic or Yzerman jersey with a limited production of 10 because there are plenty of those jerseys available at low cost. A Vezina piece, on the other hand, would get my attention. Now the question becomes, how much am I willing to spend for a chance at a long shot? On the Prospects side of the equation, as someone else pointed out, why would I can about a low print run piece of a player who has very limited potential?

So, as I see it, this product hast to overcome four big challenges in order to succeed: First, it must produce enough value to satisfy the average collector; Second, it must convince the prospects collector to accept veteran and retired goalies; Thirdly, it must convince goalie collectors to accept skaters; Fourth, Leaf must be correct in it's assumption that their niche in the hobby is higher end boxes.

After 50+ posts in this thread I don't see a lot of excitement.

I think the whole "combining" thing is overstated. They didn't combine BTP & H&P. At least that's not the way I read it..... look for a BTP Memorbilia set (be that 20 cards, or 50 cards, I have no idea) and that's it. My understanding is that BTP has been dropped, but they will instead some BTP cards into this set. I would expect very few subsets to be exclusively goalies though.

Your other comments are spot on with my opinions though. The vintage stuff is very appealing, the mid-years stuff? Sure hitting a really nice patch card of Yzerman would be cool, but that's something I would never go out and buy. Really unique Oilers memorabilia interests me, but that's because I collect Oilers. I can appreciate a really piece of a Sakic jersey, but I don't care to own one.

The prospects - I guess it depends on who the prospect is. I think ITG did load up on lesser names in H&P in the past (this is the same reason why all companies put lesser names into most of their GU and Auto'd sets) and it's true that many of the Jersey cards /180 (or higher) become dollar bin fodder pretty quickly. Even if you hit something that's limited to 5 copies with a nice patch.... if there are not any collectors looking for that player / card - it's tough to call it very valuable.

If you're not into Prospects, this probably isn't the set for you anyway.

"Leaf / ITG blow UD away in terms of GU memorabilia, when it comes to retired stars & HOFers." This is a true statement and is based entirely upon target markets. UD's appeal is rookie cards and a price point focused in the $50-100 range. ITG/Leaf have focused on prospects and history. There is no reason for the companies to go 'head to head'.

Yup. I get why some people would have no interest in those memorabilia pieces. It is entirely driven by target market. If you want Rookie Cards, not the set for you. If you want really nice GU cards, this might be the set for you (again, with no checklist - hard for me to give an opinion on that). That isn't the same market though. Rookie Card collectors have spoken with their wallets, and have said time and time again that being a Rookie Card is more important than being game used does not matter. (I enjoy collecting both, but they are different parts of my collection).

[LeafGregg]

Any checklist questions you have that I can answer, I would be more then happy guys

[30ranfordfan]

Thanks Gregg!

Two questions:

What's the mix of heroes and prospects? If I looked at the autograph checklist, is it mostly one or the other - or is it a pretty even mix?

Any Bill Ranford in the product? I ask for purely selfish reasons.

Any checklist questions you have that I can answer, I would be more then happy guys