Results 181 to 190 of 376
-
11-05-2018, 09:02 AM #181
No, you actually don't get it. I understanding being a fan, but I am also able to have an intelligent conversation with someone and realize when I perhaps made a mistake in my statements. You cannot. You state to point out inaccuracies and when I do, you just throw insults around. I get the point that Winston is the most statistically accomplished QB at his age. If he is sooooo awesome, I would hope that he would be more statistically accomplished given a 2 year head start on stats on 95% of all QBs that have ever played.
I didn't compare him to Tarkenton or Emmitt. You brought those names into the conversation. The point is that you compared him to QBs like Favre, etc....to make your point that Winston is the most accomplished at his age. Of course he is because he has played 2 more years than those guys you listed on YOUR INITIAL COMPARISON!!! Not my comparison. YOURS!
A more accurate comparison to show Winston's superiority would be to compare his first 3 years as a starter to the other QBs in their first 3 years as a starter. That would be an unbiased comparison. Not to state look at what Winston has done with 2 more years of playing as a starter. HAHAHAHAHA!!!
You state that you compare not about opinion, but rather about factual statistical comparisons. However, you make comparisons and use stats in ways that favor your biased point (i.e. showing a chart with QBs that Winston have had a 2 year head start to attempt to show is superior to those guys).
Winston will never be in the same stratosphere as Favre, Newton, Brady, Rodgers, or Brees. Newton makes those throws off balance because he can compensate with his arm. There are few guys that have ever been able to do that. Winston is not one of those guys.
I'm not going to talk about how foolish, or silly, or stupid someone is because they disagree with a point that I am trying to make. You state you don't take offense, but then you make statements like that. Clearly showing that you do!
-
-
11-05-2018, 09:49 AM #182
This thread is entertaining.
-
11-05-2018, 11:31 AM #183
It certainly is. Have to admire the man's passion.
Fitzy named starter again.
-
-
11-05-2018, 01:10 PM #184
He is very passionate and I respect that. Almost to the point I believe he might be related to Winston or receiving some compensation to promote him. I like the fact that he throws insults at you when you disagree with his opinion or try to point out biased stats. He believes Winston is the best QB out there and at an elite level when the truth is, he is not. Could he be if he would progress? ABSOLUTELY! He has all the talent and potential to be a great one!!! But, based on what I have seen from his first few years, where he has been the greatest of all-time for a QB so young, is that he is not progressing at all.
I'm sure this will be broken up and I'll be told that I am an idiot or stupid for saying what I said. lol
-
11-05-2018, 02:01 PM #185
Yea, I mean...I'm all for being a fan of a player, but a FANATIC is a different breed.
I don't like or dislike Jameis Winston (His off-field antics aside), but he is just not a good NFL QB. Stats don't need to be provided, it's just that simple. Elite or Star QB's don't get benched (without an injury) on a consistent basis. He is a flash in the pan, at his very best.
and just a side note on a similar thread started by this individual...there is no Jameis Winston card worth five figures...Maybe his first ever game worn NFL jersey would go for that, but a rookie season (Nov. 2015) Game Worn Jersey sold for just barely over $7k on NFL Auctions at the end of Nov. 2015.
Just my own opinion...doesn't count for much.
-
-
11-05-2018, 02:39 PM #186
I no nothing of the card issue, but agree pretty much with your "opinion". Lots of potential, but so far the "eye" test doesn't meet up with the very impressive stats. I don't consider him a bust at this time. I'd take a flyer on him with the Giants.
-
11-05-2018, 03:58 PM #187
Emmittzone22 ... anyone can read through this entire thread and see that you are once again, making up statements, pretending I made those statements, and then refuting the statements that you yourself have made up ... it's called setting up a strawman argument to knock it down on your own and it's silly.
I have challenged you many times to point out even one factually incorrect statement I have ever made in this entire 19 page thread and you can't do it ... because all the stats I quote and the statements I make are based on actual hard proof.
I have NEVER stated that Jameis is anywhere near the best QB of all-time, or even the best QB in today's era ... I have simply maintained the FACT that Jameis is the most statistically accomplished passer of his age in NFL history … you don't like that FACT so you troll, but it's still a FACT nonetheless.
Again, I did the same age-related stat breakdowns with Kobe and people used to hate them and say he'd never top Drexler or Dr.J. or whoever, say I was insane for investing so much $ into Kobe, say he'd be out of the league in short order, etc., etc., etc., but when I sold my the Kobe cards I invested in, I netted enough of a profit to buy a house in cash.
As for Jameis, I'm more confident in Jameis' future than I was in Kobe's through Kobe's second season when he was still not starting and coming off a rookie year where averaged just 7 points a game and was said to be aloof and someone his teammates didn't like. Now, by Kobe's 4th season, we all now he turned into a superstar … but then Colorado happened and there was talk he'd ruined his career, etc., … I enjoy the wild roller coaster rides players provide … Favre entered rehab, was threatened with being benched many times, threw his team out of a ton games, had his infamous 6 INT with 3 pick-6 playoff game, etc., Kobe had his "I refuse to shoot the ball" playoff game against the Suns, etc., etc.,.
All I have ever stated about Jameis are facts … it is a fact that he is #1 all-time in NFL history in both pass yards & pass TDs before the age of 24 … and that includes every other QB that has ever played whether they entered the league at a younger or older age than Jameis … you hate this factual stat but it's still a fact … I have also claimed that I "believe" when all is said and done Jameis will be a HOF'er but I have certainly never claimed such is a "fact" as it's just an opinion.
You however, pretend that I've said things I've never said, and then attack those non-statements, thinking it makes you look cool … it doesn't … it makes you look silly and like a troll.
BTW, saying that Jameis will never be "in the same stratosphere" as Cam Newton is insane … in Cam's first 7 seasons in the league, he only had ONE season where he had a better passer rating than Jameis had last season when he was 23 years old and playing half his games with a jacked throwing shoulder. In fact, last season, when Jameis was playing hurt he bested Cam in TEN OUT OF THE 11 individual QB statistical categories!
Look at the below chart … there's nothing "biased" about it … it incorporates ALL 11 of the individual QB statistical categories listed by pro-football-reference.com and Jameis just OBLITERATES Cam Newton … and did that in a year he played half of his games with a jacked THROWING shoulder … I'm sorry that Jameis has the worst defense in NFL history while Cam has a great defense and that leads to Cam winning more games, but Jameis was an infinitely better QB than Cam Newton last season … that isn't even statistically debatable and yet you say Jameis will NEVER even be "in the same stratosphere" as Cam, when he has already been infinitely better than Cam last season …
2017 STAT COMPS WITH AROD RUSS and CAM.JPG
Now, to BRECK19D who referenced card values and then closed with saying it was just his opinion and that his opinion doesn't count for much … I have been offered 4 figures for each of my top 2 cards and more than $30k for my "Holy Trinity" and turned it down flat and would still turn it down today. The Deshaun Watson National Treasures 1/1 auto RC (like my Jameis) sold for 4 figures and I believe it sold for that when he was injured and not even playing … I expect the Sam Darnold holy grail card to bring 4 figures and his rookie stats are garbage compared to what Jameis were in 2015 … I expect the Baker Mayfield holy grail to also bring 4 fingers … it wouldn't even shock me if someone pays 4 figures for the Saquon holy grail this year as well. Players holy grail cards are like original oil paintings where the value is simply as much as one is willing to pay and the beauty is in the eye of the beholder; there's no "book value" for such cards and the prices can get insane.
As for game worn jerseys, they are cool and I've owned many jerseys in the past but every rookie player has at least 16 game worn jerseys, while they only have one true "holy grail" RC … I mean compare a Mantle game worn rookie jersey to a PSA 10 Mantle RC or a Gretzy game-worn rookie jersey to the $400,000+ Gretzky Pop 1 RC that sold in auction … 1/1 holy grail rookie cards hold a lot more value than a "one of many" rookie jersey does.
-
-
11-05-2018, 07:00 PM #188Football Advisor
Averaging rankings in 11 categories to arrive at an average NFL rank does present a bias towards QBs who accumulate yardage in my opinion. Of the 11 categories presented, 8 of them give weight to yards which skew towards a QB who can throw for long completions.
A guy who goes 1/2/80 and a TD will have high yards per attempt, yards per completion, and likely yards per game vs a guy who goes 10/14/80 with a TD. My conclusion is that it takes little game time to incomplete one pass and to bomb an 80 yard TD vs dinking and dunking down the field on 14 attempts with 10 clock ticking completions. That plays right into Winston's brand of exciting football with long tosses or WRs who can take shorter passes and add on more yards after the catch.
The traditional QB rating attempts to incorporate attempts, completions, yards, TDs, and INTs for a single result.
ESPN's total QBR attempts to measure a QB's contributions to winning by including his impact on the game with passing, rushing, turnovers, and penalties.
Using either the QB Rating or total QBR, Winston ranked either slightly above median in the NFL in 2017 or slightly below. Including other yardage statistics in this calculation provides too much weight to yards and not other metrics. Making the Rating and QBR 2/11 of the total ranking doesn't assign the weighted value I think those two metrics deserve if the goal is to evaluate relative QB effectiveness as compared to their peers.
I do not argue at all his accomplishments in his young career and after decades of looking at the back of football cards, I can see the career trajectory for him to be filled to the brim with big statistics. His big play ability is uncommon in the NFL and is a bright spot to the customary check-downs and bubble screens. I do argue the chart as a portrayal of ranking QBs relative to their peers in 2017.
-
11-05-2018, 07:36 PM #189
But you're selling your Winston collection on eBay?
-
11-05-2018, 07:40 PM #190
OK, let me take a different approach to try and get you to understand my side. First, take a breath and actually read and digest. Secondly, I am not attempting to point out that your statement about Winston having the best numbers at his age is false. I AM NOT ATTEMPTING TO STATE THAT WHAT YOU SAID IS FALSE!!!! Thought I would reiterate that so maybe you would comprehend that point.
What I am pointing out, is your biases for Winston by stating that when you compare him using the chart you originally posted to make a point about how great he is because he has better numbers than those guys (Favre, Rodgers, etc....). The point is, OF COURSE HE DOES!!!! He has played 2 more years than those guys. Why don't you use a chart and compare the great QBs first 3 or 4 years to Winston's 3 or 4 years if you are trying to say how great he is???? That would be unbiased. WHAT YOU SAID WAS NOT FALSE!!! Thought I would reiterate that again to help it sink in. Comparing stats to someone who has been playing for 2 years more to make a point about how great they are is biased. PERIOD and don't know how else to say it. You can keep stating that I am calling your stats inaccurate or false or whatever other term you want to use, but that is not the case in this instance.
Before you dismiss what Newton has done, let us take a look at each of their best seasons so far in the NFL:
Winston: 4,090 yards, 28 TDs, 18 INTs, Rushed for 165 yards, and 1 additional TD
Newton: 3,837 yards, 35 TDs, 10 INTs, Rushed for 636 yards and 10 additional TDs
I stand by my previous statement that Newton is a far superior QB and those numbers support it. His defense didn't put up those numbers that handily beat Winston in every category other than the 250ish yards passing, which over the course of 16 games, is minimal. I won't compute the TD/INT ratio because you should get the picture. But, you know what, those are just stats for one season. When you compare the other seasons, I believe the comparison would perhaps favor Winston a bit more.
Therefore, my comparison is biased because I just compared their best year and didn't take into account their overall statistics. At least that is what I imagine you would come back with and you would be right. A larger sample would tilt the odds a little bit towards Winston. I can admit it when I throw out biased statistics to prove a point. Those stats are factual, but biased and not an accurate comparison to their true ability or accomplishments.
For someone that is really hung up on using stats to prove a point, I would think you wouldn't be biased but rather attempt to make a fair comparison. However you do not because when you use stats for Winston to show his superiority in an unbiased manner, you find out that he really isn't superior. Therefore you just twist the facts. Like stating that I am calling your stats as not accurate when I am not. You really should just quit that, it makes you look...... Won't resort to calling someone silly, stupid, idiot, etc...... I can keep a debate a debate without name calling.
If Winston is a superior QB, then show us an unbiased chart comparing stats that doesn't give Winston a 2 year head start on the people you are comparing him to (Favre, Rodgers, Brees, etc....). Anyways, can't say it any more clearly than that. I've said everything I can possibly say to help you understand that your stats are biased (but factual)!!! If you want to continue to do that, by all means please continue to use biased statistics.
Oh....by the way, Emmitt is the best running back to ever play the game. All time rushing yard and TD leader!!!! But, I am biased and can admit it! Good luck as I am unsubscribing from this thread as it is pointless. Thanks.
-
Originally Posted by Jameis1of1 
Reply With Quote
