Disproving legendary NBA myths

[WilyWestbrook0]

I'll start out with three I don't like. Remember, though, keep it clean - some of us will disagree, but try to back up your point with a convincing argument that could sway your opposition, not an insult that will make your opposition mad and not "prove" anything on either debate's side.

Myth 1. "Wilt Chamberlain could not compete against today's modern athletes."

Wilt - at 7 foot 1 - high jumped 6'6", ran 440 yards in 49 seconds, ran 880 yards in under two minutes, shot put over 53 feet, and broad jumped 22 feet (source: http://www.sportingnews.com/archives/wilt/article3.html). With all THAT said, do you REALLY think Shaq could do all those athletic feats? And yet Shaq has dominated modern competition - d'oh! So, yeah, this is why I can't stand the argument that Wilt couldn't compete against today's guys. Current centers aren't even near as good as they were as younger Shaq's competition in the '90s - after Dwight and Yao, there is no center anywhere near the level of Shaq, Hakeem, David Robinson, and Patrick Ewing.

Myth 2. "Larry Bird was a good three-point shooter, but that's really about it. He was terribly unathletic and couldn't jump. He just got a lot of credit for winning rings on what was already a dominant Celtics team."

Larry Bird made less than one three point shot per game. That means that his 24.3 PPG lifetime included 20+ PPG of OTHER shots. He also averaged 6.3 assists per game lifetime, which is more per game lifetime than Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. He also averaged 10 rebounds per game lifetime, not to mention nearly two steals per game (perhaps he was more athletic than we give him credit for, even if he didn't have "hops"), and almost a block per game. Bird was not just a shooter, he's one of the game's greatest all-around players, period. Actually, that he did this with apparently LESS athleticism makes his feats all the more impressive. Yes, his teams were good, but so is every other all-time great's team who won championships - that doesn't take anything away from Bird!

Myth 3. "John Havlicek rode Bill Russell's coattails and was just a great sixth man."

Havlicek won TWO RINGS without Russell. He was only a sixth man his first four seasons anyway - note the huge jump in minutes per game from his fifth season onward. He's also the only player other than Michael Jordan, Oscar Robertson, Larry Bird, and LeBron James to average over 25 points, 7 rebounds, and 7 assists per game in a season - and he did THAT twice also, by the way. Pretty good company, no? Havlicek also had legendary stamina, twice AVERAGING over 45 minutes per game, with three other seasons over 40 minutes per game! Jerry West once said his number should be retired by every team in the league. West should know, as Havlicek gave him fits. :)

[gatorboymike]

Those are good points, Khendra. A little old-school debate is refreshing after all this Kobe vs. LeBron ad nauseum.

Here's another one I've heard a lot in the past and have been hearing since the finals began: Phil Jackson can't win with less than two superstars on his team.

[tarheelsnipe]

Those are good points, Khendra. A little old-school debate is refreshing after all this Kobe vs. LeBron ad nauseum.

Here's another one I've heard a lot in the past and have been hearing since the finals began: Phil Jackson can't win with less than two superstars on his team.

I know what you mean about Phil. Name another coach with multiple titles that did it without two (or three) superstars.

Khendra, Larry's play reminded me of Pete Rose in that he was not the most physically dominant player, but he gave you more effort night after night than any other player on the floor. I never saw Havlicek, but it sounds like the same argument could be made for him.

Great thread!!

[dukey4life47]

Wilt - at 7 foot 1 - high jumped 6'6", ran 440 yards in 49 seconds, ran 880 yards in under two minutes, shot put over 53 feet, and broad jumped 22 feet

broad jumping 22 feet is impossible. broad jumping, if you dont know, is standing long jump. my high school record for broad jump is 9'10. im assuming either you(or the source, i didnt look at it) put broad jump, when you really should have put running long jump. either way, a long jump of 22 feet is no joke. at our conference track meet this year, he would have tied for first in high jump, would have won the 400 and 800 and would have taken second in the shot put. can you say decathlete?

i dont know if this is high school achievements, college or what it is. but if you can take into consideration how far athleticism has come in 40 years, these numbers are incredible.

[tarheelsnipe]

broad jumping 22 feet is impossible. broad jumping, if you dont know, is standing long jump. my high school record for broad jump is 9'10. im assuming either you(or the source, i didnt look at it) put broad jump, when you really should have put running long jump. either way, a long jump of 22 feet is no joke. at our conference track meet this year, he would have tied for first in high jump, would have won the 400 and 800 and would have taken second in the shot put. can you say decathlete?

i dont know if this is high school achievements, college or what it is. but if you can take into consideration how far athleticism has come in 40 years, these numbers are incredible.

A broad jump is a long jump. A standing long jump is ... well ... a standing long jump. My best broad jump was somewhere around 14'4". My best standing long jump was around 6'2". I wasn't very good at it, obviously.

Here's a reference from 1955 on Khendra's numbers...

The Sporting News, Dec. 21, 1955

[dukey4life47]

A broad jump is a long jump. A standing long jump is ... well ... a standing long jump. My best broad jump was somewhere around 14'4". My best standing long jump was around 6'2". I wasn't very good at it, obviously.

Here's a reference from 1955 on Khendra's numbers...

The Sporting News, Dec. 21, 1955

take it from the guy who does running long jump in track. broad jump is a standing jump

[WilyWestbrook0]

Sorry about the terminology, but that was how the source stated it. But yes, the point is the same - Wilt was an incredible athlete. His prowess was not just due to playing against smaller, skinnier people in his day.

I also agree with the Phil example. Most championship teams have two or more superstars. Phil is simply a great coach.

[garnett_21]

Awesome thread! I love your basketball insight, Khendra - you are one of the most knowledgable people about basketball IMO, and this is just another example. I don't have any myths right off the top of my head, but I know I'll be able to think of something eventually.

[Italy61587]

cool thread :)
i especially like the points made about Wilt........very cool

[timduncan21]

Thanks for the great article!