UD Redemptions: Why do they exist?

[Prime B]

Seriously, besides the obvious (players didn't sign <snicker>) why do they exist?

I pondered it a bit last night after the latest UD fiasco with their delay of The Cup. Again, while I give them props for trying to lessen the redemption problem, why are they in there in the first place?

Why not plan ahead, make all your cards for the product get cards signed well in advance? I can understand a redemption for a traded player or the occasional scheduling conflict, but overall there really is no excuse for these redemptions. Many know that UD works on a product sometimes up to 18 months in advance of release.

It all seems odd to me so I threw together this idea of what happens with redemptions, let me know your thoughts and/or feedback:

I think what Upper Deck does first is indirectly get short term "loans" from the consumers themselves.

They pre-sell products through distributors, take the money, put it into production costs as last minute as possible and make the cards. Then, with whatever balance is remaining, they pay the players to sign and get the cards back.

Unfortunately, since they are cash poor and have to make a profit, they have to keep some for themselves to pay the employees. This is where the redemption decisions are made and create a huge discrepancy with regard to money owed/paid athletes.

So now you have only so many guys you can pay out of your reamining cash flow, so they start going for a bit less of quality and more quantity to reduce the number of total redemptions.

They get the rookies included because they are cheap. Now they fill the low to mid tier guys like (no offense to fans of these gents) Milan Hejduk, Turco, Hextall, Staal, Leetch, St. Louis, etc.

Now you have redemptions for Gretzky or Roy or a few of the top guys because they cost the most. Heck, you even see redemptions sometimes now for their boy Sidney.

Once they sell through the product or make enough, then they go pay the rest of the guys to get the rest of the cards back/completed.

I think this also explains all these "redemption replacements" and cards that go out the back door. They "hold the presses" so to speak, wait until the last minute to make cards of certain guys, and, once they can afford to pay them, make the cards or go get them signed if the cards were already made in the initial printing process.

Since these are obviously too late to pack out, they filter these cards into the market for replacement issues and/or greasing the hands of their "loyal" customers. Sometimes they even intentionally hold back cards for replacement issues or greasing hands of "loyal" customers. Seriously, it happens.

I know it is brutal but what are you gonna do if you keep them in business? If people stopped buying their cards (which they won't) then UD will continue to do business it's way.

They'll make it and you'll like it.

[Cerialthriller]

I don't think UD is nearly as poor as you make them out to be. They have this thing called the world of Warcraft trading card game. Anything with the WoW is a money printing machine. You will probably find more cards from that over $500 on eBay right now then hockey. The fact is people complain about redemptions but then complain when their favorite player was not included or if they have a picture in an old teams jersey.

[roy.the.greatest]

This hobby should be as simple as "what we pull is what we get". No redemptions. If the product is expensive, UD should put the cards in sealed holders to avoid "customer service replacement".

[Prime B]

I don't think UD is nearly as poor as you make them out to be. They have this thing called the world of Warcraft trading card game. Anything with the WoW is a money printing machine. You will probably find more cards from that over $500 on eBay right now then hockey. The fact is people complain about redemptions but then complain when their favorite player was not included or if they have a picture in an old teams jersey.

My favorite players actually are not included in their sets so big deal to me, I get all I need of them from ITG.

The images of a player in the wrong jersey does irk me. I think sometimes it is pathetic the time between when a player has played for his new team and the release of a product months later with no update.

As far as Warcraft, I am not "in the know", no idea what it is except I saw Ozzy Osbourne in a commercial?

That said, just because a card sells for high prices in the secondary market doesn't mean anything relevant here because UD doesn't see that money, only the profits at a retail level.

That's like saying I bought a $300 Cup tin and pulled a $2000 card. Does UD make an extra $1700 off me? Nope.

[30ranfordfan]

I'd still have no issues with redemptions, if Upper Deck would actually follow through with the production. Regardless of the reason the cards wern't made in time to go out in packs (good or bad reason, I don't care) Upper Deck doesn't seem to care about the fact that they made a commitment to make those cards (that's what a redemption is) and even if they do use a little bit of legal talk to cover their butts when the cards arn't made.... that lack of commitment is what bothers me.

[xirxious]

They include these disclaimers that say their set list is not set in stone and subject to change. If they sell a product that should have a 1 in 5 pull ratio, but they can only produce 1 in 4, they just cut back on total procuction to even the odds out. I think they need to have part time reps in each city whose job is to meet the team and get these items signed. They could probably do it without even having to pay this rep, I'd sign up for an extra personal auto. They paid how much for the exclusive rights and forgot to add in 'mandatory player participation'

[Cerialthriller]

My favorite players actually are not included in their sets so big deal to me, I get all I need of them from ITG.

The images of a player in the wrong jersey does irk me. I think sometimes it is pathetic the time between when a player has played for his new team and the release of a product months later with no update.

As far as Warcraft, I am not "in the know", no idea what it is except I saw Ozzy Osbourne in a commercial?

That said, just because a card sells for high prices in the secondary market doesn't mean anything relevant here because UD doesn't see that money, only the profits at a retail level.

That's like saying I bought a $300 Cup tin and pulled a $2000 card. Does UD make an extra $1700 off me? Nope.

the point is that the cards are incredibly popular and probably outsell most sports cards. The point is there is always something to complain about regardless what company it is. ITG doesn't feature NHL jerseys which is huge to me, Microsoft has unstable products, apple products cost too much, AT&T drops too many calls, xbox systems fail too often should I keep going?

[07mears07]

the point is that the cards are incredibly popular and probably outsell most sports cards. The point is there is always something to complain about regardless what company it is. ITG doesn't feature NHL jerseys which is huge to me, Microsoft has unstable products, apple products cost too much, AT&T drops too many calls, xbox systems fail too often should I keep going?

Score 1 for you!

[gomaz]

I'd still have no issues with redemptions, if Upper Deck would actually follow through with the production. Regardless of the reason the cards wern't made in time to go out in packs (good or bad reason, I don't care) Upper Deck doesn't seem to care about the fact that they made a commitment to make those cards (that's what a redemption is) and even if they do use a little bit of legal talk to cover their butts when the cards arn't made.... that lack of commitment is what bothers me.

UD does care about making a card once they insert a redemption. But what are they supposed to do if the player loses the cards? Produce another round and send'em again? Sure. And then what if the player loses the cards again? Its happened.

Lack of caring and commitment...I don't think so. We blame UD too much. Time to shift some blame to the players who don't care about their fans, just their paychecks.

[Prime B]

UD does care about making a card once they insert a redemption. But what are they supposed to do if the player loses the cards? Produce another round and send'em again? Sure. And then what if the player loses the cards again? Its happened.

Lack of caring and commitment...I don't think so. We blame UD too much. Time to shift some blame to the players who don't care about their fans, just their paychecks.

Jeremy, I agree, there have been some of these scenarios but you can't say it has not been both sides of the coin dude.

I agree, there are a lot of players who could care less about the fans and more about greenbacks as you said. (Ovechkin, Malkin, and Jagr come to mind)