Gay Marriage - A minority view?

[RedGoneWILD]

I'll give my reason first. One of my ministry professors talked about how when he first got into ministry, he viewed performing marraiges as a service he provided and nothing more. Therefore, he pretty much married anyone who asked. But, after a few years, he would run into people he married and find out they had been divorced. As this happened more and more he became more selective. Said it hurt him too bad to know he had married people who were divorced within a few years. That stuck with me. So, to answer your question, I won't marry anyone who won't agree to pre-marital counseling. I won't marry anyone who I think is too young (not a number, depends on the person), won't marry people who are living together unless they are willing to find other arrangements until they are married (as high as divorce numbers are, the numbers for those who live together first are almost twice as high). There might be others, those are just the ones that came to me.
I know I am much more strict than most ministers so don't think this is the norm. I know that performing a wedding is a service I can provide, but so can a justice of the peace. I feel like if am going to stand before a room of people and say that I bless this union before man and God, that I want to feel like they are committed.

well, thanks for the insight...but what difference does it really make? i mean, if they dont like your decision, they can go somewhere else and still receive the same service you provide...without the hassle...it's still called marriage and considered marriage by the US government

it's like if i want french fries, and mcdonalds says i have to have obesity counseling, and wants to know how many fries i've ate before, and whether or not i cook fries at home....why wouldn't i just go to burger king and get the same french fries? or should i only be able to go to a place that calls them freedom fries...same thing, but at least they don't call it what mcdonalds calls it

maybe a bad analogy, but whatever...if you can be as selective as you want about marrying people, and know that people can still get married whether you would marry them or not, what difference is it to you if gay people get married?

[ensbergcollector]

Leviticus 18:22 - "V’et zachar lo tishkav mishk’vey eeshah toeyvah hee."

The actual, literal translation is "With a male thou shall not lie in the bed of a wife [ = married woman], it is detestable"

It's an admonition against adultery, not against homosexual sex, or homosexuality, in itself.

The same portion of the Leviticus also tells you never to eat livestock that doesn't ruminate not to eat sea life that aren't fish and not to grow different crops in the same field or wear clothes of more than one type of material.

If you're going to use such a line to criticise homosexuality then you'd best only eat kosher food, seperate your vegetable garden into seperate fields and never wear polyester/cotton shirts.

please show me where I used a line to criticize homosexuality. you haven't actually asked me what I base my belief on or anything. I am glad that you can find one verse and use that to try and convince me that my belief is stupid. I love when people try and think they can stick it to the christian guy.
So, is it your assertion that nothing in the book of leviticus is true anymore? So, leviticus forbids sex with animals. Does that mean that if I don't eat kosher food I should be ok with sex with animals? I gotta say, I appreciate people who know (or can find with a search engine) just enough bible and they assume they understand it better then people who actually read it and live it. Thanks for playing though.

[ensbergcollector]

well, thanks for the insight...but what difference does it really make? i mean, if they dont like your decision, they can go somewhere else and still receive the same service you provide...without the hassle...it's still called marriage and considered marriage by the US government

it's like if i want french fries, and mcdonalds says i have to have obesity counseling, and wants to know how many fries i've ate before, and whether or not i cook fries at home....why wouldn't i just go to burger king and get the same french fries? or should i only be able to go to a place that calls them freedom fries...same thing, but at least they don't call it what mcdonalds calls it

maybe a bad analogy, but whatever...if you can be as selective as you want about marrying people, and know that people can still get married whether you would marry them or not, what difference is it to you if gay people get married?

i completely understand that people could just get married elsewhere and in fact I encourage them to do so. It is more about what I feel comfortable with. I am being asked to bless the union before man and God. If I feel uncomfortable with the two people getting married, then I in good conscience marry them.

if I can throw an analogy in: if a 16 year old asks me to buy them cigarettes, i'm not going to do it. Are they eventually going to find someone to buy them, of course. Doesn't mean I am going to do it.

[RedGoneWILD]

but that's because it's illegal to buy those cigarettes for a minor...it's not illegal to get married, unless your gay...and even if the minor could get the cigs elsewhere, i doubt you'd encourage them to do so

[ensbergcollector]

but that's because it's illegal to buy those cigarettes for a minor...it's not illegal to get married, unless your gay...and even if the minor could get the cigs elsewhere, i doubt you'd encourage them to do so

very true. i was trying to go for something that I wasn't comfortable with and wasn't taking into account the illegal nature of my example.

i guess I look at me marrying someone as one of the most important things I can do and definately more than just a service i can provide. Therefore it is a big deal to me so if I have very strong reasons to think the marraige is in trouble before it starts, I just can't do it.

[gatorboymike]

Spare us the "sanctity of marriage" spiel. It never had any sanctity in the first place, and what you're doing won't bring it any. Stupid, irresponsible and lazy people shouldn't be coddled, they shouldn't be looked out for, and they shouldn't be protected from their own stupidity, irresponsibility and laziness. They should be allowed to writhe and scream and die in the holes they dig for themselves.

[WantToTrade]

wow, you do understand what democracy means right? We might as well have a dictator if what the people of this country want doesn't matter.

If thats the case, then why is marijuana illegal. I am pretty sure more than half the population is for the legalization of marijuana and once the voice of the older generation is gone (that is persuaded by propaganda) it will be more like 75%. You cant cry out mob rule when it suits your philosophy. I just dont understand how people who have the basic freedom of choosing who they wish to marry can "dictate" whether or not someone else receives the same rights based on their sexual orientation.

Also I recommend checking out the documentary "Outraged" on HBO exposing the hypocrisy of gay lawmakers that advocate such discrimination towards gays. It explains how many of them only vote no because they are insecure with themselves coming out of the closet and will do anything to avoid afilliation with who they really are.

[maccards44]

Christians here is your "sanctity" of marriage at work:
DIVORCE RATES
•Non-denominational/ Evangelical Christian (62% MORE LIKLEY than general population to get divorced.)
•Baptists (38% MORE LIKELY Than the general population to get divorced)
•Protestants (19% MORE LIKELY Than the general population to get divorced)
•Mormons(14% MORE LIKELY Than the general population to get divorced)
•Catholics/ Lutherans (No difference between these groups and the general population)
•Atheists/Agnostics(10% LESS LIKELY Than the general population to get divorced)

Why not worry about getting these numbers up instead of shunning gay people from the same rights you have!
ensburg - I get what you are saying about you yourself not wanting to perform gay marriages but, again, these new laws allow any officiant to bow out for ANY REASON and not face any backlash. So what's the big deal?

[dfr52]

When given the choice 30 out of 30 states voted against gay marriage. Never has a state voted for gay marriage. So, it is safe to say that the majority is against gay marriage in America.

You can ask these questions for almost every bill. Just because it doesn't directly effect you doesn't mean you don't have a right in the decision process. People vote for taxing the rich all the time. It doesn't effect the non-rich that are for raising taxes on the rich. People who pay higher taxes are not in favor of it, but must pay the tax because the majority vote for it. We do a lot of things in society based on the popular vote regardless if you like it or not. Gay marriage is no different than thousands of other laws that are voted on and in many cases are voted on by people not effected by the outcome.



There are generally two phases of marriage. The actually state license and the wedding in a church. My point is that marriage was developed through religion. Forcing a preacher to marry two men when he doesn't want to should be his right.



That is my point! Give gays equal rights under state and federal law. But if a church doesn't want to recognize it they should be forced to. I'm all for equal rights as far as the legal aspect of it.



Well it comes done to religion. If you believe it is against your religious beliefs then you are against it. Why do Muslims not eat pork? Religion. Why are some people against gay marriage? Religion. As an atheist I'm not against civil unions and equal rights under the law. I'm against a government forcing a religion to accept something they don't believe it. It is the equivalent to forcing a Muslim to eat pork because the government says it is good for them.

No one says a church has to perform the service but the gov't should since they don't grant licenses or marry individuals based on religious beliefs.

[ensbergcollector]

gatorboy- can always count on your for some hate-filled post that does nothing to further the conversation.

wanttotrade- in some states it is. it has been voted on in multiple states

matt- that is exactly why I was talking about requiring things like counseling. I don't have the numbers on me but couples who go through pre-marital counseling have a much higher success rate.