E-mailed UD and...

[TheIronHorse4]

Wow. I missed out on a good conversation this afternoon :)

I'd like to make a couple of points here.

First of all, the Ranford card you mentioned in your email to them..... I can only assume you were talking about mine. I know I've made comments about it in other threads recently.

While I take no issue with you using my outstanding redemption as an example, please check you facts if you're going to do it. There have been no auto cards released of Bill Ranford in the last two season (09-10, or 08-09). There were several (from The Cup) in 07-08, a year after the SPGU card I'm still waiting on was supposed to be made.

Does that make a difference? No, not to the argument. But when you're pointing the finger at someone you should make sure you've got your facts right.

I do not understand the point of your email to them. You submit a message like that, in a completely hostile tone, and what sort of response do you expect to get? They obviously tried to respond to you (and they got back very quickly, by the looks of things) but what did you want them to say?

You came at them without a personal problem that you needed solved, just wanting to complain about the company.

Going back to my redemption, I have been in contact with the recently (I usually email them every 6 months, or so, to ask about it). Here's what I was told:

Thanks for your message. I was actually just in a meeting about redemptions and these were one of the topics. The cards need to be reprinted and they are trying to find room for them on an upcoming form. They will definitely get made, they just need to be worked in the production schedule. In terms of timing, it could be up to another six months for completion unfortunately. If you want to have it exchanged, let me know what teams you collect and I’ll have Customer Service address. I’m sorry for the delays with these cards.

(I'm not going to bother with the whole conversation - but "These cards" refer to all of the 06-07 SPGU Lettermarks redemptions that are still out there.... not the Ranford specifically).

What does that tell me? Realistically, I might get them in another year. Is that fair? No. Is it right? No. Can I do much about it? Nope. Can the guy I was emailing do anything about it? Also no. He was polite, and quick to respond to me. Gave me information about the problem that I didn't already have. What more could I ask for, from their customer service people? For him to run down to the factory, and personally run the card off?

As for some of the other things talked about here..... I can't believe that a customer would come back to you asking for a refund when they didn't get a redemption. It doesn't make any sense.

For example, you pull a redemption today.... from an 09-10 product, and sell it to me. I get it, redeem the code. It's going to take 6 months, at minimum, before I can fairly say that there was a problem with the redemption. I'm supposed to contact a guy I bought from on eBay 6 months after the fact, and tell him that Upper Deck failed to honour the redemption?? How does that make any sense at all?

Second of all - What exactly is Upper Deck doing wrong? Are redemptions a bad thing? Yes. Are the a necessary evil? Maybe. (The other thing would be to remove them from the checklist).

You know what though? There are some legitimate reasons why cards may not get made, or sent out. Players & Agents lose and damage cards. Mailmen damage cards. Cards are going to need to get remade. In my particular case, it sounds like there was a production problem and several cards from the set were damaged during production (this is my interpretation - not something that I was ever explicitly told). It can happen.

Again - is there a valid excuse for waiting 3 years to make a card? No. There's been plenty of time for them to do it. The people (or person) responsible for that, are never going to be the ones you'll be able to talk to. Getting hostile with an Upper Deck Customer Service employee makes about as much sense as complaining about the high gas price to the kid working at the gas station (which is pretty much a sport in Canada). All you do is create ill will between yourself, and the level of the company that you CAN interact with, and who CAN help you. Get them ticked off at you, and guess what's going to happen? They're not going to go out of their way for you, at all.

One last point I want to make - if you don't want to wait, ask for a replacement. After 6 months, you're perfectly within your rights to ask for one. Is it the same thing? No. Should it have to happen? No. Reality shows us that it does happen though. Another thread suggested that legal action could be taken against them for them. Not a chance. Their redemption policies have always clearly stated that you might be asked to accept a replacement instead. When you buy their product you should know that. When you buy a replacement on the secondary market..... you should know that there's a chance you may have to take a replacement.


I don't care if it's hockey cards, gasoline, running shoes, or your cable subscription...... if you're going to deal with front line customer service employees, be polite. It's the only you'll get results.

Very well said. You made all the points I was going to.

[Qwikflipz]

Very well said. You make all the points I was going to.

I think he made all the points haha.

[TheIronHorse4]

Pardon me...."made"

[Qwikflipz]

Pardon me...."made"

I was saying he made all the points.

[TheIronHorse4]

I know, I was just agreeing with him...

[Qwikflipz]

I know, I was just agreeing with him...

But did you think I was correcting your English? I wasn't. I was agree with him as well.

[TheIronHorse4]

Ahh, assumed it was both.

[Qwikflipz]

Ahh, assumed it was both.

Nope, I wouldn't be like that, everyone does it, I knew what you meant.

[dherm360]

Wow. I missed out on a good conversation this afternoon :)

I'd like to make a couple of points here.

First of all, the Ranford card you mentioned in your email to them..... I can only assume you were talking about mine. I know I've made comments about it in other threads recently.

While I take no issue with you using my outstanding redemption as an example, please check you facts if you're going to do it. There have been no auto cards released of Bill Ranford in the last two season (09-10, or 08-09). There were several (from The Cup) in 07-08, a year after the SPGU card I'm still waiting on was supposed to be made.

Does that make a difference? No, not to the argument. But when you're pointing the finger at someone you should make sure you've got your facts right.

I do not understand the point of your email to them. You submit a message like that, in a completely hostile tone, and what sort of response do you expect to get? They obviously tried to respond to you (and they got back very quickly, by the looks of things) but what did you want them to say?

You came at them without a personal problem that you needed solved, just wanting to complain about the company.

Going back to my redemption, I have been in contact with the recently (I usually email them every 6 months, or so, to ask about it). Here's what I was told:

Thanks for your message. I was actually just in a meeting about redemptions and these were one of the topics. The cards need to be reprinted and they are trying to find room for them on an upcoming form. They will definitely get made, they just need to be worked in the production schedule. In terms of timing, it could be up to another six months for completion unfortunately. If you want to have it exchanged, let me know what teams you collect and I’ll have Customer Service address. I’m sorry for the delays with these cards.

(I'm not going to bother with the whole conversation - but "These cards" refer to all of the 06-07 SPGU Lettermarks redemptions that are still out there.... not the Ranford specifically).

What does that tell me? Realistically, I might get them in another year. Is that fair? No. Is it right? No. Can I do much about it? Nope. Can the guy I was emailing do anything about it? Also no. He was polite, and quick to respond to me. Gave me information about the problem that I didn't already have. What more could I ask for, from their customer service people? For him to run down to the factory, and personally run the card off?

As for some of the other things talked about here..... I can't believe that a customer would come back to you asking for a refund when they didn't get a redemption. It doesn't make any sense.

For example, you pull a redemption today.... from an 09-10 product, and sell it to me. I get it, redeem the code. It's going to take 6 months, at minimum, before I can fairly say that there was a problem with the redemption. I'm supposed to contact a guy I bought from on eBay 6 months after the fact, and tell him that Upper Deck failed to honour the redemption?? How does that make any sense at all?

Second of all - What exactly is Upper Deck doing wrong? Are redemptions a bad thing? Yes. Are the a necessary evil? Maybe. (The other thing would be to remove them from the checklist).

You know what though? There are some legitimate reasons why cards may not get made, or sent out. Players & Agents lose and damage cards. Mailmen damage cards. Cards are going to need to get remade. In my particular case, it sounds like there was a production problem and several cards from the set were damaged during production (this is my interpretation - not something that I was ever explicitly told). It can happen.

Again - is there a valid excuse for waiting 3 years to make a card? No. There's been plenty of time for them to do it. The people (or person) responsible for that, are never going to be the ones you'll be able to talk to. Getting hostile with an Upper Deck Customer Service employee makes about as much sense as complaining about the high gas price to the kid working at the gas station (which is pretty much a sport in Canada). All you do is create ill will between yourself, and the level of the company that you CAN interact with, and who CAN help you. Get them ticked off at you, and guess what's going to happen? They're not going to go out of their way for you, at all.

One last point I want to make - if you don't want to wait, ask for a replacement. After 6 months, you're perfectly within your rights to ask for one. Is it the same thing? No. Should it have to happen? No. Reality shows us that it does happen though. Another thread suggested that legal action could be taken against them for them. Not a chance. Their redemption policies have always clearly stated that you might be asked to accept a replacement instead. When you buy their product you should know that. When you buy a replacement on the secondary market..... you should know that there's a chance you may have to take a replacement.


I don't care if it's hockey cards, gasoline, running shoes, or your cable subscription...... if you're going to deal with front line customer service employees, be polite. It's the only you'll get results.

very good post, well written

[cathaytrader]

Going back to my redemption, I have been in contact with the recently (I usually email them every 6 months, or so, to ask about it). ........

Second of all - What exactly is Upper Deck doing wrong? Are redemptions a bad thing? Yes. Are the a necessary evil? Maybe. (The other thing would be to remove them from the checklist).

You know what though? There are some legitimate reasons why cards may not get made, or sent out.........

......

I don't care if it's hockey cards, gasoline, running shoes, or your cable subscription...... if you're going to deal with front line customer service employees, be polite. It's the only you'll get results.

Whilst I think your argument is will structured and I agree with some points I would like to counter some of your arguments.

First and foremost, acknowledge the fact that unlike a vast majority of people, you have had your emails answered. My NUMEROUS politely written and very friendly emails have been completely ignored. This is basic common courtesy and should be expected from customer service.

Secondly, regarding whether or not redemptions are a good or bad thing, it really depends on the commitment and value system that the company issuing the redemptions is placing behind them. Does Upper Deck honestly and seriously intend to fulfill these redemptions ? Are they basically going out of their way to fulfill a promise that their customers have paid for, ahead of time? Whereas I would agree that there are instances which are out of their control, there are also instances of plain fraud. I do not make this accusation lightly and therefore will illustrate the point via my own experience.

I had a redemption for a dual auto logoman from Exquisite. It was for David Lee and Wilson Chandler. I waited 2 years which according to UD was due to athletes not signing. This turns out to be total rubbish as when I finally called UD and simply asked for the card to be shipped without the autos was promptly told that the card had never been made in the first place. Keep in mind that I had been waiting for two years. I will leave you to draw your own conclusions as to what UD did wrong.

Furthermore after I asked for replacements, they promptly told me that they would use the market value of a David Lee and Wilson Chandler autograph. When I complained (politely) pointing out quite logically that the "real"market value of THIS card being a 1/1 is the price that I had paid for it, the rep then disagreed and then stated that they would use the published Beckett value. I don't think I need to clarify to people who use these boards as to why that is an absurd thing to say. I gave up on the conversation at this point. I simply then asked for replacements. It has been 3 months since that time.

Third and finally, I agree completely that when dealing with customer service, there is no excuse for rudeness and I have never been rude. However think about how difficult it must be to be polite to someone on the other line who is stating :

"I know we said that we would give this to you and that you have paid for it up front. However we're not going to be able to do it at this time and we have no idea if we will ever be able to do it. If you want to replace this, it is completely up to us as to how we compensate you."

There are many things wrong with UD. They have lost me as a customer and I will never buy another redemption or a box of Upper Deck products again.