Airing dirty laundry

[cyberer]

(this is largely copied from my Jerry Rice thread)

I need to air this out. It started with the crashing of signings thread, but it has continued. Whenever I post something to these forums, people feel the need to opine and comment baselessly on how everything I do is wrong.

I am not always in the right in these instances- If people explain things to me, I am willing to admit that I am wrong (I admitted that the crashing a signing and the asking the kid's dad for an auto are not morally wrong but just Bush League).

The reason I care here is because I am concerned really that I am a bad person because everything I post on these forums gets ripped by the morality police on here. I think of myself as a good person. I volunteer giving medical care to the homeless, I volunteer in my community, I always try to treat people with respect, and I try to be generous (I always give out cards and items for others to get signed when I graph, I give to friends freely without counting the cost, etc etc etc).

However, whenever I post to these forums everyone immediately says "and you wonder why people don't like you.." or "you are unbelievable that you do stuff like this."

Here is a comprehensive list of my "offenses" on these forums:

1. I have said that I am willing to crash a professional signing and try to get a free auto at an event that people paid for said auto- Yes, this is Bush League. I am the first to admit. But I am not alone in thinking this, multiple people have posted in my threads and PM'ed me that they have done this with success.
2. I gave a little kid's dad a card of Mike Vick and said get this signed for me if you can, otherwise give the card to your kid. I am not even going to really admit that this is Bush League, if the kid's dad wanted to do it, great. If not, the kid got a free card. Either way the kid will never know what happened and maybe get a free michael vick card (and a pretty rare one at that).
3. This new statement I have made about "bluffing" an ebay seller. In the story that I posted (although it was false I never actually did this) I was buying a lot of autographs from an ebay seller, and I posted to this person that I thought they looked fake and asked where she got them from. What actually happened was I simply asked where she got them from. Either way, Ebay is so full of scammers that there is nothing wrong with bluffing a bit. If this person is telling the truth, then it should be nothing to them to answer my question.

Anyways, people have said that I have a weird world perspective, but I am not sure that is the case. It just hurts when you go through life trying to be a good person, and you post to these forums (something that I love doing btw that makes me happy) and every single person is like a poor man's philosopher telling me why X and Y are morally wrong.

Actually, that might be giving them too much credit- no one actually tells me WHY something is wrong, they generally just post "OMG I can't believe you do that what a horrible person you are."

This is not just me. A user on here (and a nice guy at that) Brendan posted something about Yogi Berra today and how he sent him a message asking if Yogi had signed his card or had any intention of doing so. Is that maybe a little misguided? Sure, but people jumped all over him. Where do you all get off criticizing others for how they conduct this hobby? I don't know where all this self-righteousness comes from.

I need to air this laundry out because it bothers me AND OTHER PEOPLE ON HERE a lot.

[chipperjfan10]

dont listen to them bud im a supporter of u gotta do what u gotta do sometimes for a graph!

[Indian71]

Even though some of what you say may be out there, I still support what you do because in the end, isn't this hobby just about having fun?

[Sawks14]

Where do you all get off criticizing others for how they conduct this hobby? I don't know where all this self-righteousness comes from.

I need to air this laundry out because it bothers me AND OTHER PEOPLE ON HERE a lot.

Graphing has a horrible reputation because people are always trying to find the latest scam to get an auto. Its frustrating to hear people pitch ideas that don't sit right so we voice our objection to it.

The crashing idea was a simple scam to skimp out on fees. A lot of people attend shows like that so the idea of somebody thinking their above paying the fee- for whatever reason, just isn't kosher.

The Vick thing....it involves a kid. Even if your dealing with a parent at the end of the day it all boils down to using a kid for a graph. Some just consider that to be across the line.

The ebay thing...idk the story your sharing there so to comment is not my place.

As for us critiquing your methodology...our 'self-righteousness' comes for the position that we're already being judged by those cutting corners and scamming people. A lot of people won't sign because of oddball tactics and so trying to clean the hobby from things like that is a good thing. While you may be successful in getting an event auto or using a kid when enough people do it athletes will call it quits.

A lot of this comes down to what you feel is 'right'. That is totally subjective. Some people may think walking up to somebody at a restaurant while their kid is blowing out the birthday candles is 100% appropriate....others would see a big issue with that. When it comes up don't be shocked by the objection.

Again a lot of this is subjective. To me the crashing thing isn't cool but it isn't horrific...the using the kid thing to me is much worse. Somebody else may see it the opposite way or see both things as bad or not bad at all.

dont listen to them bud im a supporter of u gotta do what u gotta do sometimes for a graph!

http://www.baseballhappenings.net/20...is-out-of.html

There's a great article from the athletes perspective on your "at all costs" mentality. I've seen this echoed by Fergie Jenkins and Bob Feller in their books as well. There are lines that need to be respected. Sure they are subjective to a point but there is still a boundary of decency.

[Sawks14]

Also I will say this, while I don't really see the use of this specific topics you have been willing to hear the objections out when their raised. One of the major reasons I report my successes on this site and usually no others is the sense of decency, community, and dialogue. Hearing people out when they call you out and not just throwing up the blinders and poo-pooing everybody is a good thing. A lot of sites have people that just throw tantrums- thank you for NOT doing that.(sincerely)

[slitz]

i've dealt with you before (and had a good experience) and we've chatted on PM so I dont any beef with you, but consider:

5 of the first 9 threads on the forum right now were started by you. that might be a reason for people giving you grief

[cyberer]

Graphing has a horrible reputation because

The Vick thing....it involves a kid. Even if your dealing with a parent at the end of the day it all boils down to using a kid for a graph. Some just consider that to be across the line.

There's a great article from the athletes perspective on your "at all costs" mentality. I've seen this echoed by Fergie Jenkins and Bob Feller in their books as well. There are lines that need to be respected. Sure they are subjective to a point but there is still a boundary of decency.

Thing 1- I guess we just don't see eye to eye here, but I don't think that I am using a kid for an auto. I see your point, I'm not just ignoring you. I see that by giving the card to his dad that I am assuming that Vick will sign for the kid and thereby sign my card. But it is the father's job as a father to decide what is kosher and what is not kosher as far as "using" his kid. I'm sure if I really was using his kid the father would have given me an earful instead of saying "whatever dude" or whatever he actually said I forget.

Using a kid is paying someone to go and get an autograph for you (something I abhor) but there is a real difference between this and that. I always let little kids in front of me to get autographs and I never reach over anyone. I am very sensitive that this is first and foremost a kids' hobby that I enjoy, and don't lose sight of that. I think in this instance that line remains intact by my actions.

Thing 2- I never espoused a total "do what you gotta do" mentality. I agree there are lines. I just seem to have a different opinion on lines than some people on here.

I don't view myself as one of the "bad guys" ruining the hobby. Far from it in fact. I do it for the right reasons, never sell anything on ebay, and share information and knowledge with whoever asks AND even share merchandise if I see someone about to get a scrap of paper signed. I have been rebuked by collectors and dealers alike (at sixers games and other places) for sharing information.

My problem is this lack of sharing- I think this is the real problem. People get elitist and think that they are custodians of the hobby- that they have to protect its purity by judging and rebuking whoever or whatever they deem outside of what is right.

In many ways it reminds me of the hall of fame voters. They are out to protect the integrity of the game, but in doing so they often overstep their bounds, and lose sight of what they are actually supposed to be doing.

EDIT- Sawks this is exactly what I meant this thread to be, not just saying "screw you guys im going home" but to actually get at the root of things to see if I am, in fact, at fault. I sure I am in some way (I have admitted as much) but I want a dialogue.

[cyberer]

i've dealt with you before (and had a good experience) and we've chatted on PM so I dont any beef with you, but consider:

5 of the first 9 threads on the forum right now were started by you. that might be a reason for people giving you grief

this is also a point I have considered, but I am more concerned here with the moral objections to WHAT I say, not how often I say it.

[laf7uc1]

why do u care? its not like youll ever see these people.

[cyberer]

I don't care on any real level like it will keep me up at night, and I know the haters gonna hate as they say, but when you are just going through life trying to do the right thing, and share information and try to foster a good sharing of information on these forums, to just be blown out of the water is discouraging and makes me not want to do it anymore. So I aired this out to just see if I could clear the air and continue to enjoy these forums (which I do enjoy a lot if you haven't noticed).