Retired players not getting new cards......Steve Shields for example

[edthesandwich]

Actually i think Reddick was one of the players that some collectors had reccomended to Dr. Price when he came on the different hockey boards asking for opinions on what players and subsets should be included in BTP this year.

This is correct. And I'm fairly sure the person making the request wasn't glued to his computer at all. Probably just made his case and was heard. How about that.

[30ranfordfan]

It's tough. All three of the manufactures use a mix of current players, retired stars, and up and commers. The 'hits' in most UD and Panini products are saturated with rookies (most of which will be in the dollar bin in a year or two) and while ITG gets shut out on rookies, they make up for that with prospects.

Between The Pipes is probably the #1 product of the year, that mixes past / present / and future at a close to even rate. Obviously it's slanted more towards guys that are currently playing.... but that's expected (and should be).

I do agree with the OP - Looking at BTP from the last few years.... Roy, Fuhr, Esposito, and Tretiak are always among their retired players. They're some of the most popular goalies of all time though, so I they have to keep them in there.

BTP is the only product on the market that will mix in some of the lesser names. There are a lot of guys that got into the set this year that have never had a certified autographed card - and their inclusion is HUGE for long time fans.

Aside from the Ranford stuff that made its way into the product - the two cards I'm the most excited for are the autos of Ron Low, and (the already mentioned) Pokey Reddick. Two former Edmonton Oilers, and neither have ever had a certified auto. The fact that they're pictured as a Capital and a Jet - doesn't matter to me. Just happy to be able to pick up the auto.

Tom Fenton is one that's been brought up in a few threads. I realize that pulling one of his auto's isn't exactly going to be a big deal for most collectors (I know I wouldn't be too excited) but I think for fans of Phoenix, it's a pretty cool card. If ITG had included Nathan Deobald, or Aaron Sorochan (two guys that had similar stories for the Oilers) I know I'd be after them.

Now.... going back to BTP, and a 'Steve Shields or no Steve Shields' discussion..... here's what I would say.... he's a retired player, so he'd fall under the 'Greats of the Game' section for autographs (as an example). Well, you can break those players down into three categories:


HOFers
Billy Smith (sp)
Bernie Parent (sp)
Ed Giacomin (sp)
Gerry Cheevers (sp)
Glenn Hall (sp)
Grant Fuhr (sp)
Johnny Bower (sp)
Patrick Roy (sp)
Tony Esposito (sp)
Vladislav Tretiak (sp)

Stars:
Andy Moog
Curtis Joseph (sp)
Dominik Hasek (sp)
Felix Potvin (sp)
Kelly Hrudey
Mike Richter (sp)
Mike Vernon
Kirk McLean (sp)
Olaf Kolzig
Ron Hextall (sp)
Sean Burke (sp)
Tom Barrasso (sp)

'Niche' Players
Bob Sauve
Cesare Maniago
Chico Resch
Dan Bouchard
Denis Herron
Don Beaupre (sp)
Frank Pietrangelo
Greg Millen
John Garrett
Michel Dion
Mike Liut (sp)
Murray Bannerman
Phil Myre
Pokey Reddick (sp)
Richard Brodeur
Rick Wamsley
Ron Low
Steve Penney



Now, I'd have to go back through the last few years to see how closely that breakdown works.... and I do suspect that there are more 'niche' players this year than in the past..... but I think that's a pretty fair mix.

I don't think it'd be a smart idea to go too niche - because most people wouldn't want the cards. Let's be honest - Steve Shields isn't going to be a big hit for many people.

But when I look at that list of niche players, I would suspect about half of them have never had an autographed card, in any set. The other half have had very few.

That's the list you'd be looking to see Shield make a move onto..... and I can't think of a reason why he shouldn't be there. Guys like Pokey Reddick arn't going to have huge appeal, but they've got enough to to justify giving them a card like this every few years.... and I see no reason that guys like Steve Shields couldn't also be in the mix for something like that.

[jbudny]

It's finally nice to see Kirk McLean get some cards! Only problem is I haven't seen much his stuff from this years ITG pop up yet. I've seen the auto'ed SP, showdown with Richter, franchise leader and base pop up. I haven't seen the jumbo glove and his other stuff pop up yet.

Since the stuff is JUST released most sellers are putting up his nice SP'ed stuff for really high BIN'S so I'm waiting for the prices to come back down to earth and get listed in auction format.

I'm also glad to see Mike Vernon is finally getting some cards!

I do feel for you! I collect a lot of journeymen goalies and I don't think some of these guys will ever get certified autos or jersey cards. It's unfortunate that not everyone appreciates the players you do. Everyone always wants to pull the common stars that are in every product (Orr, Roy, Gretzky, Ovie, Crosby...boring)...but there is a few of us that don't feel that way. I don't mean to offend anyone when I say this, it's simply my own personal reflection.

It's hard for others to understand and I see that from a lot of the remarks posted in this forum. It's about dollar signs for most and having a collection to brag about. I hope Shields get some cards in the future, maybe message Dr. Price directly and you never know what could happen....I mean Pokey Reddick did get some cards this year, so anything is possible!

[30ranfordfan]

That's exactly it. There are a million different ways one can build a collection, different things that people want - ITG is really good at finding a nice balance between putting the stars in (ones that will have mass appeal, drive sales) and include some of the lesser knowns that 'niche' collectors are looking for.

I do feel for you! I collect a lot of journeymen goalies and I don't think some of these guys will ever get certified autos or jersey cards. It's unfortunate that not everyone appreciates the players you do. Everyone always wants to pull the common stars that are in every product (Orr, Roy, Gretzky, Ovie, Crosby...boring)...but there is a few of us that don't feel that way. I don't mean to offend anyone when I say this, it's simply my own personal reflection.

It's hard for others to understand and I see that from a lot of the remarks posted in this forum. It's about dollar signs for most and having a collection to brag about. I hope Shields get some cards in the future, maybe message Dr. Price directly and you never know what could happen....I mean Pokey Reddick did get some cards this year, so anything is possible!

[jbudny]

That's exactly it. There are a million different ways one can build a collection, different things that people want - ITG is really good at finding a nice balance between putting the stars in (ones that will have mass appeal, drive sales) and include some of the lesser knowns that 'niche' collectors are looking for.

there really is no wrong way to collect, we all have our preferences for different reasons. I think that sets that have the most variety usually do well. I can think of BTP and SPA, they are both very popular, offering a nice mix.

I think some set's have been guilty of offering the same player selection every year and it get's very tiresome. It would be nice to see them switch in some other players everyonce in a while.

[56Parkies]

Those of us with Player Collections will feel your pain eventually -- everyone retires, and soon our annual checklists will get smaller and smaller or disappear completely.

Keep watching the threads where bprice posts.. You CAN still get your voice heard, and while it may be too late for this year's BTP, you can still get a bug in his ear about cards for a later release..?

[30ranfordfan]

Totally!

I know that anytime any of the manufacturers (well, that's really just ITG & Panini) have asked about ideas - I keep saying 'Ranford'. How much did me (and anyone else who mentioned him) have an effect? I really have no idea..... but I do know that ITG made a couple of Ranford cards for the BTP release, and Panini put him into the scratching the surface autos.

I know when Dr. Price was asking about players - two guys on a small list I mentioned made the cut (Reddick, Ron Low) and I'm working to make sure I've got copies of both incoming (along with all 4 of the Ranfords).

Those of us with Player Collections will feel your pain eventually -- everyone retires, and soon our annual checklists will get smaller and smaller or disappear completely.

Keep watching the threads where bprice posts.. You CAN still get your voice heard, and while it may be too late for this year's BTP, you can still get a bug in his ear about cards for a later release..?

[TheBoxBreaker]

ITG should make a subset to the base cards in which only retired superstar goalies appear. Not legends, just good goalies that have retired. Shields, Vernon, Dunham etc.

[sbangayan86]

Interesting topic.

I agree with what many members have already said about finding balance when card companies create their autograph checklists. They can't have every goalie that ever played in the set...ITG has done a good job of creating a variety, while still providing a solid collection of superstar hot-shot autographs that justify the price of the box/case. It's also amazing to me that ITG delivered according to collector requests...that is dedication.

Hopefully, your voice will be heard in the near future about Shields. I sometimes wish they would just create a huge autograph set with a lot of lesser known players (including even schlubs like Alek Stojanov)...but the thing is, it's just not plausible, autographs do cost money, and no card company can really justify creating such a set and losing money on it as a given from the start.

So, go the custom route:

[jbudny]

very nice McLean! I saw that in photobucket a while back and had to do a double take. I figured out it was a custom, a very well done one! Great card!