The bible - fact or fiction???

[brandonbarnett]

Not to be rude, but isn't this whole thread about if you believe the Bible as fact or fiction, not making other board members go on the offensive and defend there beliefs??

[habsheaven]

Has to do with creation story, in particular because she did not ask advice of her husband about eating the fruit, but did it of herself, without talking about it as one flesh and tempted him to do the same.

So you are saying, because she did not ask for his advice, she now has to follow his rule? Why does she need to ask Adam for advice if she is equal to him?

[PDawson21]

Men are the head of the household. It says that. Humans are equal in worth, they have differing roles. What's so hard to understand about that? Just because the husband is the head of the household doesnt mean his life is worth more than hers.

[habsheaven]

Not to be rude, but isn't this whole thread about if you believe the Bible as fact or fiction, not making other board members go on the offensive and defend there beliefs??

Yes, one of my reasons for my not believing the Bible as fact is religion's depiction and treatment of women. I am not making anyone do anything. And I do not see anyone on the "offensive". They all seem to be taking a "defensive" position. My contention is that the Bible is not God's word, for a God would not elevate MEN to such an obvious level above women. A God, would also not condone slavery. Only MEN in power would condone these elements and in doing so try to pass them of as the "word of God".

[habsheaven]

Men are the head of the household. It says that. Humans are equal in worth, they have differing roles. What's so hard to understand about that? Just because the husband is the head of the household doesnt mean his life is worth more than hers.

Why are men the head of the household?

Can you re-type that again in BOLD? I have to show this to my wife. She ain't gonna like it but if it's God's word I'm going to have to get her to start acting like the good Catholic girl she was raised.

[WilyWestbrook0]

The fact that you do not find it degrading is your choice. No one is telling you how you should feel about it. I am stating how I feel about it. And comparing "limits" of organizations to a "limit" that is contigent on what sex you are is "stretching". Forget the Adam and Eve metaphor, how often does the Bible refer to women as property? Where did the idea of refusing women the right to vote come from?

I'm not sure which verse(s) you're referring to re: "property." If I recall correctly, there may be some in the OT, which I believe had many laws that were specific to the time, place, and biases of a very ancient culture and need not be followed today (Jesus talking about turning the other cheek instead of giving an eye for an eye in the NT is one such example), but I'm not aware of any in the NT. As for refusing the right to vote, where is this in the Bible? I've never heard of any example of this in either the OT or NT; heck, even in the OT, we have a woman who served as a judge (Deborah), which is a heck of a lot of a bigger privilege than voting in some type of election.

[PDawson21]

Why are men the head of the household?

Can you re-type that again in BOLD? I have to show this to my wife. She ain't gonna like it but if it's God's word I'm going to have to get her to start acting like the good Catholic girl she was raised.

But the woman is the neck

Heres the best way to explain it!

Household:

Chirst
Husband-Wife

[habsheaven]

I'm not sure which verse(s) you're referring to re: "property." If I recall correctly, there may be some in the OT, which I believe had many laws that were specific to the time, place, and biases of a very ancient culture and need not be followed today (Jesus talking about turning the other cheek instead of giving an eye for an eye in the NT is one such example), but I'm not aware of any in the NT. As for refusing the right to vote, where is this in the Bible? I've never heard of any example of this in either the OT or NT; heck, even in the OT, we have a woman who served as a judge (Deborah), which is a heck of a lot of a bigger privilege than voting in some type of election.

So the Old testament is not the "word of God"? Is that what you are saying?

[sanfran22]

So the Old testament is not the "word of God"? Is that what you are saying?

Noooooo......things changed when Jesus was sent. That's the quick, simplified version.

[WilyWestbrook0]

All right, I caught up on the other replies since I got back on the forum tonight. I see the property verse reference is the OT, which doesn't surprise me; I don't believe there are any in the NT. Christians aren't bound to the myriad of OT laws, and that's been expressed many times. As for the head of the household/ruling stuff, like many things in the Bible, it is symbolic no matter how much both some non-believers and believers want to make it literal. The marriage is compared to the relationship Christ had to the church in the NT - it doesn't mean the man can go around beating up his wife or any such nonsense like that just because he rules the household. If that were so, why are there verses where Paul and Peter talk about wives and non-believing husbands? I mean, c'mon, if the husbands were to rule with an abusive iron fist like some people would want you to believe, then why are wives allowed to have non-believing husbands? In that strict kind of mentality, the husband would be allowed to beat his wife into non-believing submission, right? Well, obviously that's not the case - read 1 Peter 3 and 1 Corinthians 7. Those verses are good for Christians as well because many people take Paul's "unequally yoked" verse out of context too and think that verse means believers should never marry non-believers when the Bible clearly has examples of such marriages.

sanfran22 - Yep, exactly. The Word of God covers a long span of time even when some of the laws way back when became mandatory no longer.