The bible - fact or fiction???

[AUTaxMan]

No, it is not the word of God because it contains "attitudes" that were applicable to the time? Does not God transcend time and space? Are not his words the TRUTH? If so, they should not reflect attitudes of an imperfect society.

Of course the Bible has a human voice. It was written by men who were guided by the Holy Spirit. "First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." 2 Peter 1:20-21.

One author put it like this: "To assure verbal precision God, in communicating his revelation, must be verbally precise, and inspiration must extend to the very words. This does not mean that God dictated every word. Rather his Spirit so pervaded the mind of the human writer that he chose out of his own vocabulary and experience precisely those words, thoughts and expressions that conveyed God's message with precision. In this sense the words of the human authors of Scripture can be viewed as the word of God."

[habsheaven]

Of course the Bible has a human voice. It was written by men who were guided by the Holy Spirit. "First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." 2 Peter 1:20-21.

One author put it like this: "To assure verbal precision God, in communicating his revelation, must be verbally precise, and inspiration must extend to the very words. This does not mean that God dictated every word. Rather his Spirit so pervaded the mind of the human writer that he chose out of his own vocabulary and experience precisely those words, thoughts and expressions that conveyed God's message with precision. In this sense the words of the human authors of Scripture can be viewed as the word of God."

Okay, so how does that explain all the passage condoning slavery? Is this God's message?

[AUTaxMan]

Okay, so how does that explain all the passage condoning slavery? Is this God's message?

You must have missed the two links I posted earlier explaining those passages in their context.

[gatorboymike]

To attempt to say that science and religion are the same is either pure ignorance or pure madness. They could not possibly be more different.

Religionists often try to discredit scientific theories such as evolution by saying "oh, that's JUST a theory," attempting to imply that it's nothing but a wacky guess that some old man thought up in the middle of the night after 13 cups of coffee. Then they say that people have FAITH in these, as if we were all just sitting around twiddling our thumbs until we heard this wacky guess, and then we all said "Hey, that sounds good to me! Starting now I just believe that for no reason, with all my heart! I mean, look at that guy, he has a lab coat on, so he must be right!"

What a steaming pile of wretched, abject nonsense and lies. You've just described RELIGION, not SCIENCE, buddy boy, only swap out "vision" for "theory" and "robe and collar" for "lab coat." Religion works by someone claiming to have had a divine visitation, a magical vision, a supernatural infusion of otherwise unobtainable knowledge, or just "I feel it in my heart," whatever that means. Then the seething masses listen to this individual and decide to take him at his word, without question and without evidence, because the madness he's bleating through his frothy teeth makes them feel important and better about themselves and better than everyone else and not responsible for their actions and entitled to things no one could ever possibly be entitled to. That's how religion works.

A scientific theory isn't a guess. It's a comprehensive model formulated to explain how an observable process occurs, which is supported by mountains of facts and explains how they are all interrelated. Of course they can be revised or overturned altogether, but you know what causes that? Somebody comes up with a better theory. No clergyman, cleric or apologist has ever overturned anything in science. Other scientists, working with more accurate information and more sophisticated equipment, overturn theories.

And here's the most important distinctions of all between science and religion: Science is observable and demonstrable, and religion is faith-based. If you want an explanation for why some idea is accepted by the scientific community, you can actually go and find out what the evidence is and what the reasoning is. And if you doubt somebody's claims, you can go and test them yourself. In religion, you have to rely on blind faith. No evidence, no questions, just sit down, shut up and believe every word of it, or else the devil is gonna getcha. You just have to take somebody's word for it, because they're much godlier than you, and in touch with divine wisdom that a lowly sinner like you is unworthy of.

Science is evidenciary, and self-correcting. Religion is dogmatic and authoritarian. Scientists don't get famous by agreeing with each other. They get famous by proving each other wrong. If one scientist makes a mistake in an experiment or uses flawed reasoning in a theory, others can and will figure out where, why and how he's wrong. Creationists and religious fanatics often imply that there's some kind of conspiracy surrounding theories like evolution. They obviously know nothing about how the scientific process works or what the scientific community is like. The guy who could overturn the theory of evolution or the big bang theory would become THE GUY. And because religious fanatics take such issue with theories like those, you can bet that those theories have been subjected the most scrutiny of all. So far, nobody has ever been able to shoot them down. And if you're going to say that some cleric or apologist has been able to, and science just can't admit that it's wrong...or if you're going to say that there's no evidence for those theories in the first place (like, ahem, CERTAIN PEOPLE did, a few posts back)...then you are either woefully ignorant about the subject, or you're just a liar.

[AUTaxMan]

Why are you so angry?

[mrveggieman]

Welcome to the question that we will never get an answer until the end of time. As far as the Bible being fact or fiction no one hear can say for a fact weather it is or is not. Just like no one can say the Quron, The Egyptian Book of the Dead, The Hindu Texts, or any other sacred book is or is not 100% for sure the word of God or not the word of God. The bottom line is to worship God in a manner that works the best for you. At the end God (or whatever name you call him) if you believe in him will determine what and who is right and who and what is wrong so it is not neccessary to get man's approval for your walk with God.

[Star_Cards]

well said GBM.

[gatorboymike]

Why are you so angry?

Because you and your comrades are methodically working to tear down the things I value and equate them with the raving lunatics squirming around on church floors babbling nonsense words at the ceiling.

Because you and your comrades are methodically working to subvert the government and the military.

Because you and your comrades are methodically working to turn the public educational system into a brainwashing/recruitment machine for your religion.

Because you and your comrades do terrible things to me and people like me on a regular basis.

Because you and your comrades demand undue respect, deference, consideration and acceptance while offering the exact opposite to everyone else.

But at this moment, because you and your comrades just ignore everything you don't want to hear with the excuse that "Oh, he's angry, that means I don't have to listen to anything he says, woo hoo!"

[AUTaxMan]

Because you and your comrades are methodically working to tear down the things I value and equate them with the raving lunatics squirming around on church floors babbling nonsense words at the ceiling.

False.

Because you and your comrades are methodically working to subvert the government and the military.

False.

Because you and your comrades are methodically working to turn the public educational system into a brainwashing/recruitment machine for your religion.

False.

Because you and your comrades do terrible things to me and people like me on a regular basis.

False.

Because you and your comrades demand undue respect, deference, consideration and acceptance while offering the exact opposite to everyone else.

False.

But at this moment, because you and your comrades just ignore everything you don't want to hear with the excuse that "Oh, he's angry, that means I don't have to listen to anything he says, woo hoo!"

False.

You cannot support a single one of those statements with anything I have written in this thread. I would be happy to engage you in a logical discussion of any of your above allegations, however.

[gatorboymike]

And you didn't respond to anything I said in my longer post. A single sentence about me being angry, trying to divert the discussion. Red herring fallacy. You might as well have responded with nothing but "ur stuped lol."