The bible - fact or fiction???

[mrveggieman]

This is an interesting discussion. Please continue.

[Star_Cards]

On the other hand, science must admit that there are things that simply cannot be proven and that the most reasonable explanation must be the work of a higher being. For example, the big bang. It had to start with something. What created the something from nothing?

I couldn't disagree more with this statement. If something can't be proven, a higher being isn't anything close to the first thing that I jump to as a reasonable possibility. I actually see jumping to the conclusion that a higher being is responsible to help people understand why unexplained happenings occur is a a bit of a cop out. It's easy to say "My dad died, because it was God's plan." or "That tornado didn't take my house by the grace of God". Sure it's a coping mechanism, but it's out there in my opinion.

As far as the Big Bang Theory, (great show by the way lol) people that think it's a plausible theory don't run out and base their belief system off of that, or at least I don't and the other friends that I know that question religion don't. Most people that I know that think the BBT is plausible are definitely open minded enough to know that it could have easily been some other way. It's like the Kennedy assassination, we'll never know what happened but it's interesting to talk about from time to time. Most people I run across that think God created everything think so because the bible says it's so and because of that they think it's 100% so. Of course that's not to say everyone does. That sort of philosophy is just too easy for.

You have to admit that science has become a religion to many. Many people blindly accept what this or that scientific mind (or group of minds) hypothesizes as gospel (pun intended). I am not saying that you are one of these people, but it is a fact.

For me science is not a religion. I don't obsess over how things were created or worship the big bang theory or follow the teachings of any famous scientist. I can only speak for me, but science makes the most sense and can present me with concrete evidence or well thought out theories about how things happen or happened. If I can see things working for myself, I lean towards that rather than to some mysterious higher power. Directing me to a book that was created by unknown men does nothing for me. I have no reference of their motives for creating such a book. I see the bible as a story book, a story book with some valuable lessons, but a story book with no way of knowing who created the text. I definitely don't view it as a complete guide to how everyone should live. I believe for the most part religion was/is created for people of power to control the masses. "Do this or God will punish you." type of stuff. Yes some of the bible rules are good rules, but that doesn't mean they all are. I also don't think that people of faith are mindless drones, but when it comes to certain aspects some are and can be. I know that people that live their life by the teachings of a religion don't want to hear that and are probably greatly offended that I think so little of their religion, but those are my feelings I have from my experiences so far in life. That's not to say that nothing good has come from religion and that's not to say that I think having religion is wrong. It is an issue for me when some people want to force others to do things by their religious rules and there are a lot of people out there these days that feel that their religion should be the way that our laws should be written. To me that is wrong.

I take offense to your assertion that no questions are asked with respect to religion and faith, and I especially take offense to your projection on me that I think that I am better than you in any aspect. I never said nor implied that. Also, there are millions of books debating the nuances of Christian theology and faith. We don't sit down and shut up. We discuss, debate, reflect, and share. I certainly am no more guilty of trivializing science than you are of religion.

I agree with you that you, specifically, have not said anything to state that you are better than any of us that don't believe, but speaking for me, there are a lot of religious types out there that do. For example, there are many so called christian leaders out there that make homosexuals feel like they are less than them or that the way the are makes God hate them. I'm quite open minded and know that these people that feel this way does not mean everyone that is christian or any religion feels this way, but a lot of people within the faith do and it helps promote prejudices in my opinion. It also causes a lot of people a lot of hurt being told that how they feel is evil or wrong.

[mrveggieman]

Hey guys I'm not trying to promote any particular religion or belief but I think that when you get a chance you should google Proof for the existance of God by Rene Descartes. LMK if you do so and what your thoughts and opinions are of it.

[AUTaxMan]

If I can see things working for myself, I lean towards that rather than to some mysterious higher power. Directing me to a book that was created by unknown men does nothing for me. I have no reference of their motives for creating such a book. I see the bible as a story book, a story book with some valuable lessons, but a story book with no way of knowing who created the text. I definitely don't view it as a complete guide to how everyone should live. I believe for the most part religion was/is created for people of power to control the masses. "Do this or God will punish you." type of stuff. Yes some of the bible rules are good rules, but that doesn't mean they all are. I also don't think that people of faith are mindless drones, but when it comes to certain aspects some are and can be. I know that people that live their life by the teachings of a religion don't want to hear that and are probably greatly offended that I think so little of their religion, but those are my feelings I have from my experiences so far in life. That's not to say that nothing good has come from religion and that's not to say that I think having religion is wrong. It is an issue for me when some people want to force others to do things by their religious rules and there are a lot of people out there these days that feel that their religion should be the way that our laws should be written. To me that is wrong.

I don't want to be dismissive of what you have said, because you make some good points, and I wouldn't mind delving into certain of these issues at some point in the future. However, in the interest of time (some of us do actually have to work), I'd like to return to topic.

You see the Bible as a story book with some valuable lessons but nothing more. What is the basis of that belief?

[habsheaven]

Star Cards - very well said.

I have another question that I would be curious to see the opinions of the believers on.

Will I be spending eternity in that "hot" place?

[Star_Cards]

And this is what happens when you let ignorance and anger think for you.....Thanks for coming to the conversation though.....

I thought that Gators last post was very well written and wasn't angry at all. I don't know gator at all except from his posts, but his last post was quite well written and level headed in my opinion. It sort of seems like you just want to poke him with a stick. He writes a well thought out post of his ideas and you call him angry and ignorant. Seems a bit ironic to me.

[AUTaxMan]

Star Cards - very well said.

I have another question that I would be curious to see the opinions of the believers on.

Will I be spending eternity in that "hot" place?

I certainly hope not, but from a Christian perspective, if you have not accepted Jesus into your heart as your savior, then you will. Only God can be the judge of that, though.

[habsheaven]

Hey guys I'm not trying to promote any particular religion or belief but I think that when you get a chance you should google Proof for the existance of God by Rene Descartes. LMK if you do so and what your thoughts and opinions are of it.

I just tried to read through it. Didn't see anything resembling "proof". Unless you want a proven cure for insomnia.

[karnivore]

its a story written by a bunch of gullible misguided people...I personally find it ridiculous to give the creation of everything to a person or thing that cant be proven to exist...even harder to believe when it can all be explained by science that we can prove

How can science prove how the ACL was concieved? You mean to tell me that through evolution from a single celled organism that pieces of our body was intricately weaved to form it?

Can science explain Ethical Beliefs?

Even one of the most well known scientists even believe in a higher being

"I'm not an atheist. I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws."

Dudes name is Albert Einstein. Alot of other well-known scientists also believed in a higher being (Copernicus, Sir Francis Bacon, Isaac Newton, etc) If most of the leading people in your field believes someone started all of this, and every time you try to prove its fake and fail, why not try to help see why it is real?

Everyone has their beliefs, but if for roughly the last couple hundreds years that people have tried to disprove Christianity, and still haven't, you dont see this as a basis that it could actually be real?

[habsheaven]

I certainly hope not, but from a Christian perspective, if you have not accepted Jesus into your heart as your savior, then you will. Only God can be the judge of that, though.

So you are saying, despite my not accepting Jesus, I still have a chance at going to Heaven. That's good to know.