The bible - fact or fiction???

[Star_Cards]

Genesis 11:1-9 tells us that in the early days of history, all mankind spoke the same language. However, the people congregated and built a great city which was in direct opposition to God's expressed command to scatter and populate the earth. (Gen. 9:1). Because of their disobedience, God "confounded" their language and scattered them over all the earth. (Gen. 11:7—8). The scattering of these groups all over the earth, which created genetic isolation, is the real cause for the origin of modern races of people.

Here is the passage:

11:1 Now the whole earth had one language and the same words. 2 And as people migrated from the east, they found a plain in the land of Shinar and settled there. 3 And they said to one another, “Come, let us make bricks, and burn them thoroughly.” And they had brick for stone, and bitumen for mortar. 4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be dispersed over the face of the whole earth.” 5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of man had built. 6 And the Lord said, “Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language, and this is only the beginning of what they will do. And nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and there confuse their language, so that they may not understand one another's speech.” 8 So the Lord dispersed them from there over the face of all the earth, and they left off building the city. 9 Therefore its name was called Babel, because there the Lord confused ["Babel" sounds like the Hebrew for "confused"] the language of all the earth. And from there the Lord dispersed them over the face of all the earth.

hmm... interesting. I've never heard that before. Thanks for posting.

I guess this makes me wonder why if god would take action towards these people that went against his command, why wouldn't things like this happen now to people that are not obeying his commands. I know people will deem things these days as miracles, but nothing similar to moving people and changing their races isn't close to the things people have called miracles or acts of god these days. Usually people call natural disasters acts of god, but to me they are all explained by science.

oh, and I hope you don't take my questions as trying to be sarcastic or a smart alec.

[sanfran22]

But of course there are exceptions. Surely, a child that dies in the first few minutes or hours of life is going to Heaven. God would not subject such an innocent soul to damnation would He? How about the isolated tribal elder who has spent his entire life without a knowledge of Jesus? Surely, God would not condemn him?

Yes, If you have not had a chance to hear the word, you will not be condemned...But I bet if you ask that tribal elder, he has heard. the children would be a different topic.

[sanfran22]

I am not saying I am an Atheist. My position is this. I do not believe in religion. I am pretty sure that is much different from the definition of an Athiest. But based on your beliefs, I still have a chance of entering the pearly gates :)

Do you believe in God? Or just don't care?

[habsheaven]

Genesis 11:1-9 tells us that in the early days of history, all mankind spoke the same language. However, the people congregated and built a great city which was in direct opposition to God's expressed command to scatter and populate the earth. (Gen. 9:1). Because of their disobedience, God "confounded" their language and scattered them over all the earth. (Gen. 11:7—8). The scattering of these groups all over the earth, which created genetic isolation, is the real cause for the origin of modern races of people.

Here is the passage:

11:1 Now the whole earth had one language and the same words. 2 And as people migrated from the east, they found a plain in the land of Shinar and settled there. 3 And they said to one another, “Come, let us make bricks, and burn them thoroughly.” And they had brick for stone, and bitumen for mortar. 4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be dispersed over the face of the whole earth.” 5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of man had built. 6 And the Lord said, “Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language, and this is only the beginning of what they will do. And nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and there confuse their language, so that they may not understand one another's speech.” 8 So the Lord dispersed them from there over the face of all the earth, and they left off building the city. 9 Therefore its name was called Babel, because there the Lord confused ["Babel" sounds like the Hebrew for "confused"] the language of all the earth. And from there the Lord dispersed them over the face of all the earth.

This is what bothers me. It is offered as "the real reason" without any evidence to support it. Wouldn't an intelligent person consider that all the research done and theories developed over the past hundred years offer a more reasonable, logical explanation for our diversity?

This is the case for so many outlandish claims in the Bible. The most obvious explanation for all of it is that it is NOT TRUE. Here's a list:

World created in 6 days!
World is only 6,000 years old!
Woman created from Man! (why not create her from scratch?)
The human race was propogated by incestual siblings!
Humans lived to be hundreds of years old!
Noah's Ark!
Jesus born through Immaculate Conception!
Jesus resurrected!

It goes on and on. There is a simple explanation! None of it is true!

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck ... IT'S a DUCK!!!!

But no, there are all these convoluted explanations accompanied by supposition only, that defy everything man has learned over the centuries.

And the most frustrating part is that believers can't even get their explainations and reasoning consistent. They are all over the board. Some believe this, some believe that. There's no rhyme or reason to it.

[habsheaven]

Do you believe in God? Or just don't care?

I do not believe in your God.

[habsheaven]

Yes, If you have not had a chance to hear the word, you will not be condemned...But I bet if you ask that tribal elder, he has heard. the children would be a different topic.

He may have heard of The Beatles, but don't be so sure about Jesus. Did that sound ridiculous? So did your comment.

I bet if I ask 100 believers this question. I would get a myriad of answers and many would be 100% certain THEY were right.

[sanfran22]

I do not believe in your God.

Not my god...any God?

[habsheaven]

Not my god...any God?

I simply do not know of any specific God/Creator's existence. What I do know, is that I do not believe there is any human being on this planet that DOES KNOW the answer.

[AUTaxMan]

This is what bothers me. It is offered as "the real reason" without any evidence to support it. Wouldn't an intelligent person consider that all the research done and theories developed over the past hundred years offer a more reasonable, logical explanation for our diversity

I would love to hear these reasonable, logical explanations. I want to know upon which facts they are based and upon which assumptions they are based.

I don't like being called an idiot, which is what you are essentially doing. You begin with the assumption that there is no God. I assume that there is. There is ample evidence to support both positions. I am more convinced by the evidence supporting my position, and you are by yours. Your assumption is no more logical than mine.

Because my assumption is a logical one, it is also logical for me to rely on what the Bible says as historical truth until I am provided evidence disproving my assumption or my conclusions based on my assumption.

You have the audacity to act like we are the close-minded ones. We will at least entertain scientific theories and challenge their flaws. You won't even consider the possibility that God exists unless you see 100% definitive proof of His existence, yet you will make arguments and draw conclusions based on layers and layers of unproven assumptions. It takes LESS faith for me to believe what I believe than it would for me NOT to believe it and totally rely on science.

I am willing to entertain any argument and review any evidence you have to disprove my assumption that God exists, but I am not duty bound to be convinced by that evidence merely because others tell me I should be.

[Star_Cards]

I would love to hear these reasonable, logical explanations. I want to know upon which facts they are based and upon which assumptions they are based.

I don't like being called an idiot, which is what you are essentially doing. You begin with the assumption that there is no God. I assume that there is. There is ample evidence to support both positions. I am more convinced by the evidence supporting my position, and you are by yours. Your assumption is no more logical than mine.

Because my assumption is a logical one, it is also logical for me to rely on what the Bible says as historical truth until I am provided evidence disproving my assumption or my conclusions based on my assumption.

You have the audacity to act like we are the close-minded ones. We will at least entertain scientific theories and challenge their flaws. You won't even consider the possibility that God exists unless you see 100% definitive proof of His existence, yet you will make arguments and draw conclusions based on layers and layers of unproven assumptions. It takes LESS faith for me to believe what I believe than it would for me NOT to believe it and totally rely on science.

I am willing to entertain any argument and review any evidence you have to disprove my assumption that God exists, but I am not duty bound to be convinced by that evidence merely because others tell me I should be.

What evidence is there that there is a god? I get that one can't 100% prove that there isn't a god, but I'm not aware of any proof that he exists. Any "proof" that I have heard is not proof at all but rather people just saying it is so because that's what they have been told at church by some other person or what they read in the bible.