My Rant / Opinion / Idea about this hobby...Warning Long Read!!

[kroetche]

Hey Guys

SO before I get started I just wanted to say that this is totally random and might not have any structure, but its whats on my mind and its easier typing than going to see my shrink...LOL

I want your take and ideas too. Please reply.....HERE we go...

First of all I want to say I like this hobby....I really like this hobby. The people you meet the LCS owners that are always making it easy to stop by and pick up a box when you cant wait to order online and wait...The crazy cards that are being produced with 4-8 autos on a cards, nice patches and all that stuff.

There are different type of collectors out there and they all have their perks...thats what make the hobby fun and fruserating at the same time.Do any of you find it kind of a weird hobby. I know that this is a hobby and not very many hobbyist make money if any at al,l but dont you find it silly to buy boxes of hockey cards. Dont get me wrong I love busting packs and try to buy all my stuff for Waynes (LCS) to support him and his store but it gets frustrating too when you buy a box of The Cup for $300-400 (only have bought about 5 since it came out) and even though the Base value is a couple hundred over the price of the box you cant get your money out of it. Again I know its not all about $$ but it cant just be hard on me cause I see what other high end cards go for on ebay and other sites. When quad patches and autos out of /15 etc. go for $15-20 of a semi star how can people be happy with that (im talking the seller). There is a member on here who has the perfect quote and I agree 100% with it....SOrry it may not be exact be it says something along these lines "Ebay is the best and the worst this for this hobby". They are totally right and I will never try to stop people for buying their because Im looking almost everyday. But how many jersey cards or inserts are on ebay right now that are .99 that have gone weeks or months without a bid.

Collectors want rare things so they can show off to friends and fellow collectors..am I right? Ok like I said no structure.....Im changing my train of thought again.

Negatives about Hockey cards in my opinion(You might disagree and thats ok, jmo)
- there are way too many sets / companies / mass producing cards
(i would like to get an older collectors opinion who collected cards in the 70's & 80's.)

Im really sorry but Im changing this again and will finish with this that rant / idea.

But to me..wouldnt the perfect hobby world have say....Upper deck have say 5 sets for collectors to choose from. Starting from

1."Collectors Choice"- Great for first time collectors looking to complete their first base set and a few inserts with a small amount of paralells to the inserts Retail around $40 box???

2.-"Victory" This product would be another nice base set with more inserts and parallels. But you would start to introduce low end rookies and then have parallels with those just like victory does now....but # every rookie whether its out of /15000 or /5. Retail around $60 box??

3. "UD Series 1 & 2" This is a very popular set and probably will be for a while as it is reasonably affordable and has some nice pulls. Again I would like to see how the set is now but again # the young guns. Dont have a jersey cards with more than a print run of 500. All autos #'d. Retails for $100 a box

ex. bobby orr jersey card one swatch /499
bobby orr jersey card two swatch /199
bobby orr patch card one swatch /99
bobby orr patch card two swatch /50
bobby orr patch auto card / 15

I guess you can tell Im getting sick of pulling doug weight, raffi torres, tommy salo jersey cards that are white swatched with no numbering. But I should have to pay $200 a box for that....should I? Maybe Im wrong. Anyways

4. This is where the need to take SP Authentic, Ultimate, Black diamond, SPx, UD Black UD Ice etc. & combine these sets with the collectors favorites and have this product with more super stars and concentrate more on removing 1 color swatches, sticker autos, plain inserts. Retails for $150-$200 a box

5. Then have a high end product like the cup with only a limited number of boxes produced. This product would have 0 no name rookies, autos, and patches. And be loaded with stars & HOF's that would only sign and autos for this set ( maybe very limited for other sets 3 & 4) This would still be hard as you never know who will be the best rookie or whatever but really have the proven stars whos names are proven. like go down the HOF's list and the super stars of today and have there patches and autos. This may retail for $300-450 a box

I find this way would have a stepping stone for collectors to buy what they could afford and liked without having the other 20 products full of mass produced jerseys and autos that make the nicer sets less valuable. Like pulling a crosby gu jersey in series 1 or option 3 and getting $10 on ebay for it because there is so many available. I understand that why they release so many product, so they can have new stuff coming every month to your LCS and the internet but I truly believe it is damaging the hobby with all this mass productions. By 2020 every one will have a crosby, ovechkin, gretzky game used jersey from one set or another cause they mass produce them every year making them less valuable because they are becoming "less rare". I know everyone wants crosby, ovechkin, and so on but you cant mass produce and have a jersey card in every set can you? I remember collecting in 98-99 and the UD mvp set (what I could afford) and being so happy to pull inserts knowing there would be a very small chance that in the boxes I bought their would be a memorabilia card or auto. They didnt make very many jerseys which made them rare and they only had stars (i remember hasek, brodeur, thornton,gretzky etc.)

I really wonder what it was like have 1-2 sets back in the 70's / 80's Topps or OPC. Other then not pulling jerseys or autos or patches I think I would have enjoyed collecting a lot more back then. Base cards were valuable cause everyone wanted completed sets.

So my question is this....Has the internet "changed" the hobby or have the Companies (UD/OPC/ITG) wrecked it by over producing cards and adding more sets every year. And will it ever change?

I know I have missed things here and there and made lots of spelling mistakes but it has been on my mind for the past while and I thought you guys might listen!!! I give you thumbs up for actually reading this and want to here what you think.

[TeamChevelle]

I have been a set builder since the early 70's with a break from the 1990-2007. When I returned to the hobby I noticed that there were now few set builders and everyone was collecting specific players. In the beginning of my collecting it was a challenge to finish a set but we had less disposable income and few people were buying cases. Going to the corner store to get a couple packs was a big deal as a kid....today ots odd to see a kid in the LCS and its full of us big kids from 20-30 years ago. What happens in teh next 20-30 years??

[bojohnson]

I have been a set builder since the early 70's with a break from the 1990-2007. When I returned to the hobby I noticed that there were now few set builders and everyone was collecting specific players. In the beginning of my collecting it was a challenge to finish a set but we had less disposable income and few people were buying cases. Going to the corner store to get a couple packs was a big deal as a kid....today ots odd to see a kid in the LCS and its full of us big kids from 20-30 years ago. What happens in teh next 20-30 years??

Wow I relate
I know exactly what you are saying there and I know
I used to be excited for just a couple packs
Now its boxes

I base collect, and collect cool looking cards
It's a shame that kids don't collect as much any more
I remember making teams with my cards in a binder
One 9 card sleeve and 9 cards per team
I'll be honest when I returned to te hobby I didn't even know what boxes were, I thought you could just buy packs from buck or two and hobby shops only sold cards

[jogesc2]

Totally agree, I've decided to basically only collect vintage from now on. The exception being BTP. I might also look at the new Parkhurst when it comes out too. I liked it better back in the day when you just had base sets and focused on finishing a set. I didn't even mind the early 90's as it was still relatively cheap to complete a few sets, like Pro Set, OPC, Score and UD.

I have no idea how kids afford it now. I remember going to card shows with my dad back in the early 90's and begging him to let me have a two week advacne on my allowance for a $20 box of OPC. That was alot of money to me.

[dtab316]

Personally, I'd like to know where you got your prices from. UD 1 & 2 shouldn't be any more than $65/box. Collectors Choice and Victory no more than $35.

However, I, presonally, would like to see Upper Deck cut back to no more than 10-13 products, with no more July or August releases. I would like to see the following:

Victory (Sept.), Ultra (Oct.), UD1 (Oct.), Black Diamond (Nov.) OPC (Nov.), Trilogy (Dec.), some sort of legends or heroes set (Dec.), Ice (Jan.), UD2 (Feb.), SP Authentic (Feb.), Ultimate (Mar.), Collectors Choice (Apr.), & The Cup (May).

You could always make changes or add another 2 or 3 products and maybe change the timelines.
I also did away with Artifacts, SPGU, & SPX. I feel that these have run their course.

I also would like UD to get away from adding RETIRED players in base sets. But then again, I mentioned this back in '07 and in a case of series 2, I pulled a Gretzky Exclusives.

While I'm on my soapbox, the number of game-used is getting out of hand. I remember back in '97, I was lucky enough to find a Bure gamer. I also sold the thing for $170.

Try that now.

I digress. Make the gamers 1 or 2 per case and NO MORE 4th-line players. I'm not exactly thrilled pulling a gamer of a #7 defenseman who spends more time in the ECHL than in the NHL. Cut the list of players who have gamers back to no more than 20. I'm also talking about UD1 & 2 or any of the mid-level releases, not the HIGH-END products. That's a different story.

[ralral33]

buying sportscards is like going to the casino sometimes you win some sometimes you lose some .But if you hit the jackpot its $$$$$ but if you don't get the hits then its sour grapes ,personally i think panini is great but way way way too many sets comming out ,but hey if everyone keeps buying the companies will keep producing . plus yes there is lots of collectors out there that just collect but also there are people that just buy to sell and the ones that buy to sell are pretty well all the unhappy customers .

[flemingc04]

The times certainly changed, but in my opinion, we just need to adapt and role with the punches just like everything else in life is always evolving (gas prices ). I kind of like the selection of many products now to be honest. In the overall scope of things, I think there is a decent number of sets to choose from for set collectors (Score, Victory, UD 1&2, SPA), a nice selection of sets for player collectors (Artifacts, Certified, Limited, The Cup), and within that there are different price points to help fit within our different budgets.

My biggest concern right now in the hobby is the flood of game-used cards and how they've become so common that we hardly bat an eye at most of them thus causing their demand and values to take a huge dive in the last 3 years or so. I remember back when I got into collecting in 2006 and a few months in, I walked into a Buck or Two and bought a few lose packs of 05-06 UD2 and pulled a black Zigmund Palffy GU jersey. I opened the pack in a clothing store while my girlfriend was browsing around and I got excited on pulling a card that had a piece of game-used jersey that Palffy actually wore in an NHL game! It’s one of those pulls I will never forget and I still remember like it happened yesterday. Now, turn the tables to the Fall Expo and a broke box of UD1 and I pulled jerseys of Patrick Eaves and Stephen Weiss. My reaction was completely different, this time with a feeling of "meh". I still have those cards sitting around waiting to be scanned for my bucket. I'm not saying I don't appreciate all jersey cards. In fact, there are tons that I appreciate very much. What I am saying is that the massive amount of jersey cards on the market has caused me to lose appreciation for many jersey cards as has happened to many others.

To help solve this saturation of jersey cards, I think the companies need to drastically reduce the number of jersey cards distributed in order to create more appreciation and demand for them once again. A perfect example is the prices and demand for the jerseys from McDonald's Upper Deck (very rare hits and sold extremely well). This would help eliminate seeing bins upon bins marked $1 or $2 filled with memorabilia cards inside.

Unfortunately with everything said, the companies insert so many jersey cards because we (the collectors) want the hits and not every jersey card can be Crosby, Gretzky, Toews, and this year's top RCs. When I attended the meeting Upper Deck hosted at the Spring Expo they brought up the fact that they can easily get jerseys from today's players but one big challenge they are facing is the limited number of vintage jerseys available as they need to also retain pieces for years to come. Today a player will play with a different jersey every game, but guys like Bobby Orr played with a very limited number of jerseys, which is quite evident when you see all of the stitch marks from the rips and tears over time and the number of Orr jersey cards we’ve seen distributed. Now they are trying to come up with new innovative ways to engage collectors because we keep saying, "Give us more, we want something new and different. We’re tired of the same old every year.". This is why they have introduced ideas like the manufactured patches (quite controversial) and the prototype video trading card they’ve been showing off.

Personally, I'd like to know where you got your prices from. UD 1 & 2 shouldn't be any more than $65/box. Collectors Choice and Victory no more than $35.

I can't speak about Collectors Choice or Victory as I've never looked into them, but in my area the LCSs have sold UD 1&2 for roughly $90+tax. A few months ago when one LCS owner asked what a box goes for at the Expo, I almost had to call 911 when I told him $60. He was flabbergasted. I think his cost is around $80. With that said, I these LCSs aren't located in dense urban areas, so it's not like he would be buying multiple cases because he's selling half a dozen (or more) boxes a day of one product.

[pacadie]

From my point of view, every collecting eras had their pros and cons.
1940-1980's
PROS: Excitment of buying packs/pulling stars/completing sets
CONS: The collecting season was very very short

1990's
PROS: Excitement of buying boxes/pulling RC and inserts/the happening of Book Value, Memorabilias and Big Hits
CONS: Billions of cards were printed/poor quality control

2000's
PROS: The begining of the 20 + sets/year era/ the golden age of Big Hits/ the happening of eBay and Tradesites/The era of hyperspecialized collectors/Excitement of buying cases
CONS: Mass production of Memorabilias/Hobby goes from a kid activity to an adult activity/Greed

My 2 cents.

[Drewk86a]

I have been a set builder since the early 70's with a break from the 1990-2007. When I returned to the hobby I noticed that there were now few set builders and everyone was collecting specific players.

As a kid collecting in the late 70's early 80's it was all about completing the set. We had no idea of book value or RC premiums. We simply wanted to complete the set. You would trade 3 Bourques and an Yzerman to get that single Bernie Federko card you needed and would walk away exited that you made the deal! Today it's all about getting "equal value".

Chevelle is right about people focusing on player collecting, but what else can you do these days? There are so many sets, inserts and parallels that is difficult (and expensive) to build sets.

But, I guess you take the good with the bad. I miss the simplicity of only having Topps & OPC sets. But on the other hand, when I pull a quad jersey Datsyuk card it keeps the hobby fun.

[theboxbreaker96]

as i am 15 i have a hard collecting in these days. im a huge pens collector but i cant collect the big boys like crosby malkin staal fleury. i have 2 sid autos 2 malkin 1 fleury 4 stalls. i have a hard time collecting someone i can afford (Kris Letang). its almost impossible for a kid (7-12) to collect with everything going on in this hobby