Results 21 to 30 of 121
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09-07-2010, 01:01 AM #21
You really don't think that modern day cards sell even remotely the same as the high end vintage cards......do you?
The Lafleur bgs 10 sold for quite a bit of dough, probably quite a bit more than any card in your pc and the Lafleur isn't even really the tip of the iceberg when it comes to high end vintage!!!! I don't know how many sheet cut Morenz or Vezina rookies are floating around (let's say NONE) but I'm prettu sure you'd need the armoured Brinks truck to make the deal.
How much has vintage dropped (in terms of worth) over the past few years compared to.....let's say your Roy shields or the property of's that were purchased the last few years? I know of a Roy dual shield purchased, that you were the 2nd bidder sell for over $10000 2 years back. Is it even worth $5000 nowadays? As long as their putting out Roy shields year after year, you really think that the prices are going to sustain their value? How about all the Property of 1/1's that collector in Quebec was buying and paying huge bucks for. After he decided to sell them again how many do you think he lost money on?
I know times are tough nowadays and the economy is very sour, but the high end vintage has sustained it's value incredibly well over the newer shiny stuff UD has put out the last couple of years....
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09-07-2010, 07:26 AM #22
I guess a lot of us younger guys who has not seen the likes of the 70's and 80's guys play feel that they don't want to spend all their money on collecting vintage cards. I feel more of a 'connection' collecting guys that I watch game-in, game-out.
I am 26 and was too young to remember Gretzky, I only caught him when he was in his last year with the Kings and career dwindling, the same with Lemieux.
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09-07-2010, 09:05 AM #23
I collected vintage stuff 10 years ago. Vintage cards has drop a lot in terms of value, especially due to the grading market where we can find these days many 1960's, 1970's and 1980's vintage cards graded BGS 9 or 9.5. We saw some laser cut Bobby Orr RCs.
From what you wrote about the Roy cards, I am not sure you know this specific market of high-end Roy cards. Do you know who owned them (not only me), and what they sell for year after year? The Patrick Roy modern cards that you speak about fully keep their value, and go up in value since the first ones made in 2002-03. You speak about "la creme de la creme" of Patrick Roy cards (Patrick Roy NHL Shields Auto 1/1 cards). Each year, generally only 1 or 2 cards are produced, and we are many collectors chasing to get it. Owners of cards like that don't care to spend what it takes to secure the specific card in their collection. Same for a name like Gretzky, it doesn't go down in value buddy! Most shields don't hold value because people refers in their mind for names like Brad Winchester, Kyle Chipchura, etc. Please try to buy in cash a card like that of Gretzky or Roy and you will see by yourself, instead to say that it goes down in value with no facts.
My point here about vintage cards is to say that the vintage collectors don't pay as for modern cards, demand for vintage is low; so yes the quantity of vintage collectors is not significant comparatively to the modern cards market. It is obvious for shows like the Toronto Expo, vintage doesn't drive the hobby. This is also why ITG cards do not sell as high as for UD stuff, because vintage names do not sell as well as modern names (nothing related to ITG or UD, but simply about the target of each products). When the hobby is healthy, the Toronto Expo is full of dealers; it isn't the case right now, and nothing is related to the vintage stuff (not enough significant in the hobby). If you were a dealer, imagine you go at the Toronto Expo for a booth and your goal is to sell during the week-end, would you put vintage cards in your showcase, or cards like in my sig? A showcase getting no attention, no demand, the cards won't sell well. By the way few of cards were purchased at the Toronto Expo!Last edited by roy.the.greatest; 09-07-2010 at 10:02 AM.
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09-07-2010, 10:10 AM #24
I collect both Vintage and current cards for different reasons...I love the Vintage cards look as they have a very classic simple design and have historical facts and information..as a person born in the 70s..I love to look at older cards and read bios about HHOF players before my time as it lets me learn of the era and have knowledgeable conversions with friends who are in their 50s and 60s who lived through that era..there is more involved for me than simply the cards..they are sometimes just the vehicle to get a great conversation going with folks that otherwise I might not ever connect with. I love to learn about the progression of the NHL and the Game...really enjoyed the "HOCKEY: A People's History Series"
as for the newer cards..love them too..love busting packs and searching out autos and nice GU fabric patches...and looking at cards with my nephew..also love finding Autos for HHOF players that in the Vintage Era..you would have to get signed IP..
i enjoy collecting Gordie cards and couldn't imagine my collection being as enjoyable unless it had a mix of the CUP and vintage Parkhurst cards to truly capture all collectible aspects of him as a player, patches...autos and vintage cards from his early career days...I guess i am the in between collector avidly enjoying both types of cards and trying to bridge them both and trade with collectors from both sides of the coin.
whatever type of cards you collect...ENJOY IT!..they're is nothing more exciting than someone who is truly PASSIONATE about their hobbies and takes joy in sharing it with others.
sorry if I rambled on a bit..but I truly love both raw, graded, vintage and modern cards and hope that I can find some Vintage collectors to trade with soon as there does seem to be a shortage of them on this site.
if anyone here read my post and wants to check my bucket..I am always looking to trade to further round out my PC...send me a PM.
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09-07-2010, 10:13 AM #25
I would very much appreciate it if we could stick to the track of vintage collecting & the lack or non-lack thereof.
Personally, I see people move to vintage when they begin to explore the the history of the game.
I see two reasons why we don't have people moving to vintage. One is the lack of "identifiable" cards available. The second is the proliferation of card sets have killed the set collector.
The proliferation of sets means that the "vintage" set collector has died. Anytime before the 90's, you wanted hockey? You picked up a set by spending you money over a year to collect less than 300 cards from one brand. you had to wheel & deal through the mail, but by the beginning of next year, you had all the hockey cards available and only needed a small box to keep them in. Sometimes it was hard or expensive and some weeks you didn't buy your pack because you didn't have the money, but in the end it was worth it to have the ENTIRE set of hockey cards that year and you're ready for the next one.
In the 90's the market exploded, You had to collect, OPC, OPC Premier, Topps, UD, Pro Set, Score and a host of other sets. There were more than a few money cards, but it was still possible. You got really lucky with some pulls and at the end of every year you had just shy of 3000 cards. Okay, you missed the super short printed inserts like a Pro Set hologram, but that was selling for 500 bucks and those 96-97 Jersey cards, but you still have those rookies and & every card for hockey PLAYERS that year. It was a little more hectic, but you managed.
In the new millennium, it went from hectic to impossible. The hockey market had slowed down to topps, Pacific, UD and ITG, but the lockout cleared the plate. Now, its just UD (and later Panini). There are 20+ sets a year. Sometimes a pack of 4 cards costs more than your entire set of a 70's or 80's cards. If you wanted to collect just the base sets of hockey (with no rookies even), you'd need over 4k of space. including rookies would push that to 5k+. This wouldn't include the GU, the short prints, the super short prints, the /10, the /5 or the 1/1, which are either impossible to find or everywhere depending on how you look at it.
For people who are used to that scenario. why would they even think of becoming a set collector? Its all Player collectors now, which means that they're looking for the identifiable cards.
If someone where to ask me: "Hey, I want to collect Roberto Luongo. Which cards should I try to get in my collection?". I'd say, first, you need the 97-98 Zenith RC. From there, its a matter of choice of what kind of autos you want, and inserts or GU. You can get him in the Islanders, or Florida Panthers or Canucks and I could probably name more than a few noteworthy cards from him. There's also the first GU from that era and a couple of nice inserts that are both rare and good looking. I can't name them immediately, but I know that they exist.
If someone were to ask me "Hey, I want to collect Tony Esposito. Which cards should I try to get in my collection?". I'd say his OPC or topps RC from 69-70 and then... blank, until the mid 90's because that's when more identifiable cards became available like the autos and game used cards. How memorable are the vintage cards where he holds a trophy? With the exception of a few inserts through the years, Player collectors want to zoom in on the most impressive cards. That means RC, autos and Gu. Vintage can only offer 1/3
Cheers,
reoddai
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09-07-2010, 10:39 AM #26
I just want to note a lot of collectors are referring to "vintage" as 70's and 80's. By that time cards were already mass produced. My idea of vintage is pre 1960. Cards during that time period were not as mass produced, and more condition sensitive. Cards before 1960 still sell very well and are gems to look at and behold. I have a 1924 V145-2 Billy Boucher card and it has a hell of a lot better chance of selling for its BV of $150 than a $20 Jersey card of a mid range player does. Vintage is something that people do not need to collect but should atleast understand, it is always nice to research the roots of something you truly enjoy. Besides maybe taking a look might open your eyes to the world of cards before square inch jersey swatches and sticker autos.
Happy Collecting,
Mike
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09-07-2010, 10:48 AM #27
I collect mostly modern stuff but wish I had the $$$$ and availability to pick up more vintage.
To me there is something about being able to say "Sweet it has 2 nice corners" or "I don't care if it has been folded.... Twice. I still like it"
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09-07-2010, 10:55 AM #28
I agree Mike. I picked these 2 up
and after seeing them I knew I would get more some day.
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09-07-2010, 11:07 AM #29
Those are sweet pick ups. If you let grade and condition be a non issue you can pick up some sweet cards. I dont have the $$$ either so pick up lower grade stuff. My 1924 Billy Boucher ran me $8. :)
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09-07-2010, 12:10 PM #30New Project Manager
what is vintage, where does it stop???
Beckett seem to refer as to being prior to 80's. Older collector tend to see it as pre 60's
Now if you look at how popular hcokey was back then and how it influence the number of cards produce.
Pre 50's Hockey was not very popular in Quebec. The war in the first years affected the money each had to spend. Then after the war, the economy started to pick up but very slowly. The 50's, family were still tight in budget and family standard was less children but you still had big families and thus less money for kid to buy.
The 60's brought prosperity and demand was up. Card company started to make more cards and thos saying pre-60's have a point in less being produced.
Then the 70 and 80, somce consider them vintage, other don't. But I think all pre 90 can for some be consider vintage. Now over words I think pre 90's was the end of a era. How card were produce, would change the hobby forever.
Since I started to collect early 70's, most of my pre- 70's are PC. Got 14 in pre 60's as PC and more in 60's. For the traders, I have these:
50's
https://www.sportscardforum.com/scf/i...yra/1950/sid/2
1 record found.
60's
https://www.sportscardforum.com/scf/i...yra/1960/sid/2
26 records found.
70's
https://www.sportscardforum.com/scf/i...yra/1970/sid/2
1,034 records found.
80's
https://www.sportscardforum.com/scf/i...yra/1980/sid/2
1,906 records found.
Now these link are the new inventory free for all members to use, Maybe if all vintage collector enter their cards in there we can trade more down the road.
I think many do not trade vintage because of card condition. It's tough for many to evaluate cards and have a idea of what each are worth. Maybe one traded for a card only to find out later the crease put no value on the card. Maybe this deter member to collect them. It's not easy to trade for vintage also because not many show them either but have some. Since they do not see many interest, they don't promote them.
I hope the new Inventory Manager will Promote vintage better and help member to trade more of it. If you know of other vintage trader elsewhere, Ask then to come list them here so we can search their cards as well. Maybe one day we can count over 100 member showing vintage and more pre 90's cards.
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Originally Posted by roy.the.greatest 
